I Need Help understanding what I need

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Casey H
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Re: I Need Help understanding what I need

Post by Casey H » Fri Jul 23, 2021 5:11 am

cosmicdolphin wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:38 am
Stubee wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 11:31 pm
I'm hoping that by year 3 of my Taxi membership I might be able to understand some of this without asking for so much help. Although, I've only been a Taxi member for 8 month, I feel that this community has got me focused in the right direction.
Honestly I think you'd be better off investing the money in some training instead of re-upping the Taxi membership, whether that's a course in recording / audio production , vocal coaching, a songwriting courses or something like Soundgym for training your ears

As much as folks can help on the forum it's no replacement for direct one to one tuition with an expert. Get the foundations sorted.
And/or seek out collaborators.

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Re: I Need Help understanding what I need

Post by Stubee » Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:02 am

Casey, I can do both. I have had a vocal coach for the last 3 years. Vocal training is great but it won't help you understand how to apply it to genres of music.
I've been reading books articles and watched numerous videos on audio production for many years. I've worked with Garageband and Logic Pro for about 10 years. I'll check out Soundgym. Honestly, I can read and take courses for the rest of my life but at some point I have to apply the knowledge and make my mistakes. Absolutely, book knowledge is essential before practical knowledge. Making mistakes and having people point them out is also a great form of education. That's what I love about Taxi and this forum. There are a lot of moving parts to this process.

-Stu

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Re: I Need Help understanding what I need

Post by Telefunkin » Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:39 pm

Stubee wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:02 am
Casey, I can do both. I have had a vocal coach for the last 3 years. Vocal training is great but it won't help you understand how to apply it to genres of music.
I've been reading books articles and watched numerous videos on audio production for many years. I've worked with Garageband and Logic Pro for about 10 years. I'll check out Soundgym. Honestly, I can read and take courses for the rest of my life but at some point I have to apply the knowledge and make my mistakes. Absolutely, book knowledge is essential before practical knowledge. Making mistakes and having people point them out is also a great form of education. That's what I love about Taxi and this forum. There are a lot of moving parts to this process.

-Stu
Stu, well done for taking it on the chin every time and getting up to fight again! That's the spirit that'll get you where you want to be. Books and courses are great and more or less compulsory, but at some time you have to put the books down and get in the cockpit if want to learn to fly a plane. Great attitude! :)

Personally, I think (especially in my own case) most of what I was presented with in courses and books seemed quite clear, until I tried to apply it, then I realised that its not as easy as it appears to be. I've wrestled with why, as an experienced live gigging musician of some decades, I didn't have the right tools to make great music right away. Surely, I should have known enough to chose good sounds and balance them using a few software knobs, shouldn't I? Well, I grossly underestimated the task. Its not that its hard in any academic sense, but it can be hard to recognise whether something sounds good or bad, or better or worse, and to know what are the right things to do about it.

We're all different, and have different skills and aptitudes, but all I can do is tell you a few basic things that have helped me (not that I would claim any special expertise). I believe others have found similar things too, so its not just me. I'm sorry if it sounds too simple and far from a magic potion, and it might also sound condescending or ridiculously obvious, but here goes...

A LOT of this is down to listening, and critical or analytical listening in particular, not just listening for pleasure. The more your ears inform your judgements, the better you will get at making the right moves, therefore:

1) Listen to lots of music through the system you record with. If its blues, then listen to everything you enjoy and want to emulate. Each listen, try to focus your mind on one of the instruments (even if its just the kick drum or bass guitar) or the vocal and try to identify its qualities - rich, thin, transient, clear, dull, soft, deep, dry, wet (reverb), front, back, left, right, wide, narrow, separation, and anything else that occurs to you. Why do you think they made it sound like that? Do older recordings sound different to later ones? What's the difference (eg drums)? Do your recordings sound like those references? What are the differences? How can you get those sounds? Is it worth going back to the books to find out?

2) Take note of the arrangements too. Basic to start with? What changes in the chorus? What's different in verse 2? Is there a lot contrast in the bridge? Does the vocal gain intensity through the song, by pitch, dynamics, phrasing, added harmonies? Does it feel like you've been on a journey from the start to the end?

3) When recording, never rely on fixing things later, but try to get each instrument sounding right as well as a convincing and in-time performance right at the start. Choose parts and instruments for the job they need to do in the mix. If there's no space for it, or the mix works without a particular instrument then leave it out. Try not to make an instrument detract from any of the others.

4) Keep mixing as simple as possible. Start with any corrective measures (eg editing out unwanted noise). Treat the upfront and most noticeable things (eg vocals, main guitar part) as most important and mix the other parts around them and to support them. Get as far as you can with just level (including mute) and pan. Then use EQ only where needed (eg cut out interfering lows from high instruments). Use reverb/delay only where its needed (not just because you can ;). Compression can be a fantastic tool, but needs to be used wisely! Avoid any other tools until you've got a good mix with those few things. If a plugin doesn't make something sound better then take it out again.

5) Keep referencing all the time, and keep adjusting to get closer to that commercial sound. Keep comparing and adjusting until you can't tell the difference :lol: j/k! Get as close as you can. Don't forget to have an ear reset every half hour or so. That is REALLY important. Have a rest, then listen to something completely different (on the same system) for a few minutes.

6) Know when to quit! There's a certain stage where if things are still not sounding right no matter what you do. Its probably not because of your mixing skills, but more likely because the source parts are either not good enough or don't fit together well. Try and figure out what it is, and do something about it if you can. Always aim to at least end up with a final mix of ever track you start rather than leave things unfinished. However, be willing to call it a learning experience and move on to the next song, rather than torturing yourself to make a masterpiece. Nothing is a waste of time, nothing is ever lost, and the track can be revisited some other time.

Finally, if ever you lose confidence in your mixing abilities, try mixing someone else's recorded tracks. Whenever I've done that I've been surprised how much easier it can be than mixing my own tracks. That's because they're good sounds, that are well recorded, at proper levels, with parts that work together. It proves you can mix (even if only to a basic level), and sadly also proves that the recordings ought to be better. Fix what needs fixing :).

I hope some of that helps, but if you can stand any more supporting information out of the cockpit, then have a look at the free (and even paid for) offerings of Graham Cochrane at Recording Revolution, and Joe Gilder at Home Studio Corner. I believe they have tracks you can mix for free, but if not I'm sure there are some free tracks from Warren Huart at Produce Like A Pro.

https://www.recordingrevolution.com/
http://www.homestudiocorner.com
https://producelikeapro.com/

We're all perpetual students.
Good luck!
Last edited by Telefunkin on Sat Jul 24, 2021 2:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
Graham (UK). Still composing a little faster than decomposing, and 100% HI.

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Re: I Need Help understanding what I need

Post by cosmicdolphin » Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:45 pm


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Re: I Need Help understanding what I need

Post by Telefunkin » Fri Jul 23, 2021 2:31 pm

cosmicdolphin wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:45 pm
https://youtu.be/VcLm-v-xCWc
Hmmm...solid compositional principles, but they're surely just placeholder sounds and its a long way off a good sounding track. I doubt it was intended to be anything else though despite the misleading title. I like the guy (Guy) though, and everything else I've seen from him has been really, really good and well worth watching, so no criticism of him intended.
Graham (UK). Still composing a little faster than decomposing, and 100% HI.

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Re: I Need Help understanding what I need

Post by Stubee » Fri Jul 23, 2021 4:19 pm

[Telefunkin, this is such awesome advice that I am going to put your 6 points into a sticky note and pin it on my computer!
Very Very Helpful!!!! I have watched a lot of the Joe Guilder videos. I tend to be a little right brained, which is a problem
when you are trying to analyze the individual components. I do understand the science of frequencies. I know what they sound like
and how they should apply to different instruments, however, I tend to be too heavy handed with them. If the recipe calls for salt
I might use a table spoon instead of a pinch. That's the practical side of things. I'll read your 6 points every time I mix now
in order to stay focused. I've got the sauce on the stove cooling off and I appreciate you taking a spoonful now and then
to let me know if it needs more salt or if I have to start over because I've already used too much.

Thank you,
Stu

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Re: I Need Help understanding what I need

Post by Stubee » Fri Jul 23, 2021 4:46 pm

cosmicdolphin wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:45 pm
https://youtu.be/VcLm-v-xCWc
I like "Tune Doctor". I just subscribed to Guy Michelmore's Youtube group.
This looks like a great resource for songwriting knowledge.
Thank You Cosmcdolphin.

-Stu

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Re: I Need Help understanding what I need

Post by Stubee » Fri Jul 23, 2021 4:53 pm

Casey H wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 5:11 am
cosmicdolphin wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:38 am
Stubee wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 11:31 pm
I'm hoping that by year 3 of my Taxi membership I might be able to understand some of this without asking for so much help. Although, I've only been a Taxi member for 8 month, I feel that this community has got me focused in the right direction.
Honestly I think you'd be better off investing the money in some training instead of re-upping the Taxi membership, whether that's a course in recording / audio production , vocal coaching, a songwriting courses or something like Soundgym for training your ears

As much as folks can help on the forum it's no replacement for direct one to one tuition with an expert. Get the foundations sorted.
And/or seek out collaborators.
I tried the Soundgym test and scored poorly. I think that I will try this on a monthly basis. Thankyou for the suggestion, Casey

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Re: I Need Help understanding what I need

Post by irthlingz » Fri Jul 23, 2021 7:20 pm

Would just like to say that these discussions are helpful to others on the same path, so thank you for starting this thread, Stu!

===
Michael

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Re: I Need Help understanding what I need

Post by Stubee » Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:14 pm

irthlingz wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 7:20 pm
Would just like to say that these discussions are helpful to others on the same path, so thank you for starting this thread, Stu!

===
Michael
Thank you too! This forum is one of the things that sets Taxi apart from the others.

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