Ideas on Americana and history

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Re: Ideas on Americana and history

Post by superblonde » Wed Jun 30, 2021 9:29 am

Kolstad wrote:
Sun Jun 27, 2021 10:59 pm
Americana is inherently american (which very much is a «melting pot» culture), but has spread as a concept that inspires artists in many other countries also, to explore their roots in an introspective way, and reflect upon culture and current developments. Nordicana is an example of that from northern scandinavia, and other countries may name it differently but use similar influences and inspirations. I think Eno’s storytelling might be pushing it a bit for me, but we might call it africana. Its a big world, and we have been interconnected for centuries :lol:

I just don’t like to politicize americana music, americans seems to do that with everything now, but keep focus on the music and it can be viewed as an inspiring concept to explore local roots, big or small - where ever you are. Each country bring their own artists, genres, stories and instruments to the table.

It’s sort of an umbrella genre where you in the states can draw upon dixieland jazz, rock’n roll, blues, surf rock, classic rock, heartland rock, alt.country ect. In other countries, other influences could be added. But usa is central, maybe because of the influence of recorded music, now everyone can do it, and have a rich heritage in americana.
It is the music record labels and music concert venues, since the earliest days of music and music recording, which created & promoted segregation into race records and black/white artists, and that segregation continues presently. That's simply facts. This is a made-up set of borders around music (and obviously harmful to humans and music fans) which can't be ignored, like separating artists into "Rock" from "R&B" or "Country" from "R&B" even when the artist's music has the same musical content, or entire fanbases which then avoid genres for no other reason than the genre label rather than the musical content ("I don't like Country music" or "I don't like R&B music"). That's the relevance. "Americana" as a term seems to be applied as both a way to get rid of old artificial genre labels, or as a way to create even more segregation to target a specific consumer demographic, depending on which industry list is being looked at.

The Atlantic:

Why Is a Music Genre Called 'Americana' So Overwhelmingly White and Male?
The genre seeks to represent and celebrate a national identity, but in the process, it erases the history and diversity of its influences.

By Giovanni Russonello

.... Case in point: The nonprofit Americana Music Association formed in 1999, and held its first festival and conference the following year in Nashville. The big coup came in 2009, when the Grammy Foundation established an independent category for Best Americana Album. In the four years since, no musician under 60 has won the award.

And despite the genre's roots in gospel and the blues, the 20 Americana nominees to date have included only one black artist: the singer Mavis Staples, who won the award in 2011 for You Are Not Alone. (The album was produced by Wilco's Jeff Tweedy.)

... you'll notice that it didn't take long for Americana to earn industry acceptance, which can be explained in much the same way as the existence of the genre's other, less flattering nickname: "dad rock." The music business was happy to create a niche for the country's most fiscally dependable demographic -- white, male Baby Boomers. Along the way, a handful of artistic traditions founded in rebellion (blues, Appalachian folk, outlaw country) got elided into a relatively conservative format.

What is the relevance? Well... if a listing says "Seeking Americana Music" ... and it just so happens, that you're white, or black, irrespective of the musical content, ... then... 'suddenly it matters'.
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Re: Ideas on Americana and history

Post by AudiniAudio » Wed Jun 30, 2021 5:08 pm

Superblonde,

it's sounds like you know a thing or two. Where did you go to university? Was there a particular course you took that covered this domain? Or did you educate yourself on these matters? What books did you read? I think you are a probably a well read person.

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Re: Ideas on Americana and history

Post by Kolstad » Thu Jul 01, 2021 12:53 am

superblonde wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 9:29 am

What is the relevance? Well... if a listing says "Seeking Americana Music" ... and it just so happens, that you're white, or black, irrespective of the musical content, ... then... 'suddenly it matters'.
Yes, but on the practical level, when you see an americana listing, and feel like you can contribute with something, there is a lot of leeway in the tv/film world. As you are normally to exclude references to specific places, names ect from your lyrics to tv/ film submissions - that part of americana matters less. You can be in Siberia, and play blues on a banjo, and it may pass as americana. You can be a LGBT+ person in Egypt, and strum a card box guitar, and if it sounds like the references and meets the listing criteria, it may pass as americana.

Tv/ film is very dependent on musical clichés as those suggests certain things to mainstream audiences, like a mandolin suggests Italy, impressionistic music like Debussy and Ravel suggests dreams, and 90s grunge suggests rebellion. Americana is often in the feel good category, and the demographics you mention 40+, male ect are those who still watches flow tv. It doesn't mean that the music is used in a racist manner, it just has to support the scene.

And tv/ film producers don't care who made the music. You can be black, latino, white, LGBT, handicapped, a street bum, anything. As long as it works. You just have to know what "matters" for tv/ film.

On a second note, if you look more closely at the artists in the americana genre, regardless of age, you will find that many are activists, and politically engaged towards economic and social justice. It is music that has a long tradition of being protest music and constructive. The writer of that brief article in The Atlantic is a jazz critic from New York, what business has he writing about a genre he don't fully understand nor respect? Not buying those claims for one moment.
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Re: Ideas on Americana and history

Post by Paulie » Thu Jul 01, 2021 3:20 pm

"Americana" is not chauvinistic (belief in the superiority or dominance of one's own group or people). It is just a sub-category of Americana country music influence. It's just the name of a genre, not a politically incorrect term.
What is the relevance? Well... if a listing says "Seeking Americana Music" ... and it just so happens, that you're white, or black, irrespective of the musical content, ... then... 'suddenly it matters'.
Not sure I follow you. If a supe is "Seeking Americana Music" it just means that they are looking for a specific genre, is using a term that helps categorize their search, and they probably do not care at all what color, race, gender or other identifier a composer wishes to claim. Everything is not about race, no matter how hard society wants it to be today.
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Re: Ideas on Americana and history

Post by superblonde » Thu Jul 01, 2021 3:57 pm

Paulie wrote:
Thu Jul 01, 2021 3:20 pm


Not sure I follow you. If a supe is "Seeking Americana Music" it just means that they are looking for a specific genre,
That's the underlying question.. what is the genre? Though regardless, when a vocal comes on, the vocalist is easily recognized.
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Re: Ideas on Americana and history

Post by Paulie » Thu Jul 01, 2021 7:13 pm

The genre is "Americana." It's about as specific as "Yacht Rock." :) Here's how teh Americana Music web site defines it: https://americanamusic.org/what-americana-music
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Re: Ideas on Americana and history

Post by SubRivers » Fri Jul 02, 2021 3:48 pm

I don't think Americana is that difficult to define - it's folk roots music and those roots are from Africa and Europe in the melting pot of America.

Mumford and Sons are Americana as are The Lumineers - it's banjos, guitars and double bass and piano and violin - in fact anything so long as it has a rootsy vibe
Mumford and Sons happen to be British but that is irrelevant.

It has been a big genre and a cross over one in the last 10 years - even bands like Bon Iver have a stake in it without it being their entire thing.

Even Avicii and "Wake Me Up" is obviously heavily influenced by Americana.

Dead South is another band - though their style is usually categorized as Southern Gothic which is a dark sub genre of Americana.

It's usually pretty obvious what they the biz are after when they ask for Americana and not complicated - listen to the refs.

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Re: Ideas on Americana and history

Post by irthlingz » Sat Jul 03, 2021 3:34 pm

"Americana Music Association Executive Director Jed Hilly told Bloomberg Radio that some prominent examples of Americana artists are Bob Dylan, Levon Helm, Emmylou Harris, Steve Earle, Lucinda Williams and Old Crow Medicine Show."

https://www.fredericknewspost.com/news/ ... 2fc88.html

I'm thinking on listings it's a way of saying they want kind of a rootsy, folksy feel without being too restrictive on instrumentation.

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Re: Ideas on Americana and history

Post by superblonde » Mon Jul 05, 2021 10:01 pm

AudiniAudio wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 5:08 pm
What books did you read?
This is a widely used university textbook on charted music since 1900's.

Starr, Larry, and Christopher Waterman, American Popular Music: From Minstrelsy to MP3. 2008.

This is a popular university history of rock textbook. Covach also has a free coursera.org course on this book. He also has a History of The Beatles course and book.

Covach, John. What's That Sound?: An Introduction to Rock and Its History Paperback. 2006.

These books are weak on music theory though because they are written by historians.

Autobiographies (most are ghost written) can be very good. I've read dozens. Keith Richard's autobiography is really, really good.

Richards, Keith. Life. 2010.
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Re: Ideas on Americana and history

Post by superblonde » Mon Jul 05, 2021 10:12 pm

I queried "what is the Americana genre?" to UK/LA producer Warren Huart. The response was:

Americana is a very old term, coined in 1841 and I've heard it in use, even while living in the UK. It's a very old term, that I might be using more than others!



One of my pet peeves of musicians, who are supposed to be a creative bunch, is the overloading and overuse of old vocabulary words. If new music organizations wanted to define a new fusion genre they should have invented a new word. The pharma industry invents new words for brand names all the time and spends quite a bit of time on it. "Rock & Roll" itself is a coined term. Just coin something new, in order to make something new. (Which brings up the greed angle: the industry probably wanted to bogart all the fans of the existing Americana genre then re-define it for their own profit motives.) I wouldn't have guessed that the current definition of Americana included 1970's style Country and by extension, Bro-country.

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