Ideas on Americana and history

[charlie2]

Hi everyone

I was wondering...is the genre of Americana chauvinistic?
What if some music was composed entirely in america but is not seen in that genre?

Thinking about this, it seems like most popular music today derives from America. I think this is due to our large population along with our classical/folk roots from the western renaissance.

Music that came out of the renaissance and after was the original template of not only our music, but of the modern world.

Western people were lucky to get this system...and now with globalisation, the world is getting it.

[superblonde]

I think you must mean "ethnocentric" not "chauvinistic".

Most popular music since ~1920 derives from Africa. It is percussive and syncopated.


"Yeah, I can't wait. I want to know what happens to Africa.

Africa?

Africa is everything that something like classical music isn't. Classical - perhaps I should say "orchestral" - music is so digital, so cut up, rhythmically, pitchwise and in terms of the roles of the musicians. It's all in little boxes. The reason you get child prodigies in chess, arithmetic, and classical composition is that they are all worlds of discontinuous, parceled-up possibilities. And the fact that orchestras play the same thing over and over bothers me. Classical music is music without Africa. It represents old-fashioned hierarchical structures, ranking, all the levels of control. Orchestral music represents everything I don't want from the Renaissance: extremely slow feedback loops. If you're a composer writing that kind of music, you don't get to hear what your work sounds like for several years. Thus, the orchestral composer is open to all the problems and conceits of the architect, liable to be trapped in a form that is inherently nonimprovisational, nonempirical. I shouldn't be so absurdly doctrinaire, but I have to say that I wouldn't give a rat's ass if I never heard another piece of such music. It provides almost nothing useful for me.

But what is tremendously exciting to me is the collision of vernacular Western music with African music. So much that I love about music comes from that collision. African music underlies practically everything I do - even ambient, since it arose directly out of wanting to see what happened if you "unlocked" the sounds in a piece of music, gave them their freedom, and didn't tie them all to the same clock. "

- Brian Eno

[NMN]

Hi everyone

I was wondering...is the genre of Americana chauvinistic?
What if some music was composed entirely in america but is not seen in that genre?

Thinking about this, it seems like most popular music today derives from America. I think this is due to our large population along with our classical/folk roots from the western renaissance.

Music that came out of the renaissance and after was the original template of not only our music, but of the modern world.

Western people were lucky to get this system...and now with globalisation, the world is getting it.

Hi Charlie, your question made me think about what sorts of music fall in to the Americana genre. After I did some googling, I came to the conclusion that I think that the level of chauvinism really varies depending on the artist. I can't speak to the renaissance origins but my opinion is that when Americana artists (or really any popular genre) reach a certain level of popularity in this country, their music loses a sense of humility and gains a sort of off-putting, manufactured attitude. Some of the pop country songs I've heard are blatantly chauvinist and so I steer clear of that genre typically. There are also plenty of Americana artists that are more introspective and based in reality. If you agree that Roy Orbison, Tom Petty, Bonnie Raitt, Neil Young are in this category, then they are great examples of Americana artists that are mostly the opposite of a chauvinist.

[Kolstad]

Yeah, americana is somewhat western, and the audience demographic in USA is predominantly white, male, 40+ now. There are exceptions, but that probably confirms the rule. Think Springsteen, The Eagles, Bob Dylan, Tom Petty and more recently, The Killers and John Mayer. Huge, influential, world wide artists that now inspires tons of new indie artists and bands. I don’t see anything inherently chauvinistic nor ethnocentric in americana (nor «nordicana») as a genre, though. But as NMN writes, you have to look at the particular artist as there are some bad brew in between.

Americana is inherently american (which very much is a «melting pot» culture), but has spread as a concept that inspires artists in many other countries also, to explore their roots in an introspective way, and reflect upon culture and current developments. Nordicana is an example of that from northern scandinavia, and other countries may name it differently but use similar influences and inspirations. I think Eno’s storytelling might be pushing it a bit for me, but we might call it africana. Its a big world, and we have been interconnected for centuries

I just don’t like to politicize americana music, americans seems to do that with everything now, but keep focus on the music and it can be viewed as an inspiring concept to explore local roots, big or small - where ever you are. Each country bring their own artists, genres, stories and instruments to the table.

It’s sort of an umbrella genre where you in the states can draw upon dixieland jazz, rock’n roll, blues, surf rock, classic rock, heartland rock, alt.country ect. In other countries, other influences could be added. But usa is central, maybe because of the influence of recorded music, now everyone can do it, and have a rich heritage in americana.

It continues to evolve, for sure.

[superblonde]

Maybe post some industry charts for this genre as it is being defined recently... thought it was Appalachian music and descendants. Appalachian music seems diverse in its lyrical stories.

Once Country music gets thrown in the mix then I see where the original question came from, a surprising aspect of country songs is the frequent theme of the male singer who can't live without his girl & will "be nothing" without her, she's "the only one", will "die without her", on and on, there's a several unpleasant slang words which describe those types of men and it is bizarre to me that those songs are popular sing-along hits. Country music is marketed as "being wholesome" or "being real" which is even more bizarre.

[Kolstad]

Billboard
https://www.billboard.com/charts/americana-folk-albums

Official
https://www.officialcharts.com/charts/a ... ums-chart/

[charlie2]

" Most popular music since ~1920 derives from Africa. It is percussive and syncopated. "

I think you mean well by stating this, but it's wrong. Not only is it wrong but it creates deeper race problems.

Polarized statements are one sided and fail to see the complex mix of our popular music.

The western structure of music, (our scales, etc.and 500 yrs of classical music), opera arias, folk music from many nations, do woo singing on street corners, tin pan alley, musicals and many other things. These all added to the mix of African american contributions such as blues/r@b/ragtime, etc. which in turn created american popular music.

Theres been a trend to overstate African american contributions but I can tell you, it's making the problem worst.

Continue to fight racism...but do it right.
Respect the truth. The w h o l e truth.

[superblonde]

Billboard
https://www.billboard.com/charts/americana-folk-albums

Official
https://www.officialcharts.com/charts/a ... ums-chart/

The first link is unfortunately paywalled and the second link has a list which is nonsensical, containing: Taylor Swift, Bruce Springsteen, the Black Keys, The War on Drugs, Neil Young, some country artists, and others I don't immediately recognize.. it is essentially a list of "big brand mainstream music". I don't get it. And to top all that off, #1 on that list is a British artist; "Joan Armatrading was born in Basseterre, Saint Kitts on December 9, 1950 and is a British singer, songwriter and guitarist. " So what the what is America about that, is anything with a guitar-strummer also considered Americana... Uhhh..

[AudiniAudio]

Superblonde,

interesting what Eno wrote about Africa. I have nothing to say about whether the case it's influence is overstated but I do know that wherever African music goes it gets utilized, and not only that, it infuses itself into the music it touches. Then, comes back to Africa in all it's new forms like what happened with all the South American dance rhythms which then morphed again while being incorporated into High Life and whatnot.

It feel it all comes from the African bell pattern. It can be played in 4/4, in 12/8, or it's on the beat side and off the beat side can be generalized into 4/4 as with the clave rhythm which is where it evolved from.

Tuning also has something to do with it. The pitches which fall between the cracks of the piano in central Africa which had less influence from outside, were brought to the Americas where they couldn't be played on Western instruments like on their original Amadinda xyllophones and plucked harps or whatever, so they created the multitonal (essentiallly serial bitonality) chord structure of the blues where you're forced to bend the notes of the minor pentatonic to match the microtonal pitch they hear in their head from their homelands.

Westerner's who tried to copy it often bent the pitches from "wrong" to be "right," which actually is a little too far for the African tuning system.

The banjo also came from a skin covered gourd "lute." The technique for playing the banjo also came from instruments like the guembri.

We are grateful for what we've received.

[Kolstad]

Billboard
https://www.billboard.com/charts/americana-folk-albums

Official
https://www.officialcharts.com/charts/a ... ums-chart/

The first link is unfortunately paywalled and the second link has a list which is nonsensical, containing: Taylor Swift, Bruce Springsteen, the Black Keys, The War on Drugs, Neil Young, some country artists, and others I don't immediately recognize.. it is essentially a list of "big brand mainstream music". I don't get it. And to top all that off, #1 on that list is a British artist; "Joan Armatrading was born in Basseterre, Saint Kitts on December 9, 1950 and is a British singer, songwriter and guitarist. " So what the what is America about that, is anything with a guitar-strummer also considered Americana... Uhhh..

but U can google yourself, can't u? maybe you come up with a different story, and use that to make music. Americana is big in Europe, though. Many americans don't realize how influential american culture is all over the world, and artists everywhere work from those influences to create their own local brew of 'cana . Fortunately it is a very inclusive genre