If You Could Feel My Pain - Review Requested

[pogodog]

Aub, Clarification: I think I called your third verse ( the part about matches ? ) the bridge. I am sure that is where the confusion begins and hopefully ends... possibly not... if so then i agree with Casey that the third verse could be omitted altogether making your jump from the TRUE bridge to the repeat chorus much cleaner. This would also make the song leaner at under 4 mins. Also i love the voice in the verse(s) (solid) - the chorus could use a lil more punch ( maybe sing in your higher register or force your vox a bit ) IMO. And i do admit it's based solely on the fact that i have your song" Freeze me " stuck in my head. It's a wonderful example of contrast between song parts. Completely different songs, without a doubt ... but the quality of Freeze is something to shoot for .anyway, I'm sure you'll kick something into shape ... and i can't wait to hear it. The master of confusion,Rang

[aubreyz]

Quote:Aub, Clarification: I think I called your third verse ( the part about matches ? ) the bridge. I am sure that is where the confusion begins and hopefully ends... possibly not... if so then i agree with Casey that the third verse could be omitted altogether making your jump from the TRUE bridge to the repeat chorus much cleaner. This would also make the song leaner at under 4 mins. Also i love the voice in the verse(s) (solid) - the chorus could use a lil more punch ( maybe sing in your higher register or force your vox a bit ) IMO. And i do admit it's based solely on the fact that i have your song" Freeze me " stuck in my head. It's a wonderful example of contrast between song parts. Completely different songs, without a doubt ... but the quality of Freeze is something to shoot for .anyway, I'm sure you'll kick something into shape ... and i can't wait to hear it. The master of confusion,RangAhh... makes more sense. I get it. First of all, it is very encouraging to have someone make references to another one of your songs as a goal to shoot for --- btw Freeze Me has a new prechorus and a few tweaks here and there to add when I get back to that one.The third verse is going to be hard for me to lose. I'm open and will look seriously at it, but there is a lot of meaning there for me. Of course, if as a songwriter you have to explain what it means, then you've missed the boat I guess.The playing with matches reference has a double meaning. I'm referring to a bonfire that got out of hand as a kid, and also to a rage of partying that started as fun but ended up consuming a decade of my youth.Perhaps the bridge combining thing might work, but honestly 4:30 is not that unusual anymore... it's not like this is a country song Yesterday wasn't a great vocal day for me anyway -- and today it's worse. So I'll have to stand down for a bit on recutting vocals, but I'm leaning toward adding back some grit. I think in losing it, I also lost some performance realism and feeling.But, as Meatloaf says... let me sleep on it.Aub

[Casey H]

I know not everyone likes Nickelback, but I think their hit song, "How You Remind Me" is a good lyrical model in situations like this. There are only 2 1/2 unique verses. In verse 1 you really don't know what the song is about. It's not until he mentions the bottle in the "chorus" that you get it. The story is also amplified when he says how "living with me must have damn near killed you". It's all somewhat subtle. Note that more is said with repetition of less words than with a lot of additional words. Food for thought... casey"How You Remind Me" by NickelbackNever made it as a wise manI couldn't cut it as a poor man stealingTired of living like a blind manI'm sick of sight without a sense of feelingAnd this is how you remind meThis is how you remind meOf what I really amThis is how you remind meOf what I really amIt's not like you to say sorryI was waiting on a different storyThis time I'm mistakenfor handing you a heart worth breakingand I've been wrong, i've been down,been to the bottom of every bottlethese five words in my headscream "are we having fun yet?"yeah, yeah, yeah, no, noyeah, yeah, yeah, no, noit's not like you didn't know thatI said I love you and I swear I still doAnd it must have been so badCause living with me must have damn near killed youAnd this is how, you remind meOf what I really amThis is how, you remind meOf what I really amIt's not like you to say sorryI was waiting on a different storyThis time I'm mistakenfor handing you a heart worth breakingand I've been wrong, i've been down,been to the bottom of every bottlethese five words in my headscream "are we having fun yet?"yet, yet, yet, no, noyet, yet, yet, no, noyet, yet, yet, no, noyet, yet, yet, no, noNever made it as a wise manI couldn't cut it as a poor man stealingAnd this is how you remind meThis is how you remind meThis is how you remind meOf what i really amThis is how you remind meOf what i really amIt's not like you to say sorryI was waiting on a different storyThis time I'm mistakenfor handing you a heart worth breakingand I've been wrong, i've been down,been to the bottom of every bottlethese five words in my headscream "are we having fun yet?"yet, yet

[aubreyz]

Quote:Aub,I am feeling alienated by this song because you never say WHAT your pain is, where it came from, what happened to you, etc. When I read/hear your lyrics, I am expecting you to go further into the story, develop with each verse, give me some background, etc. You haven't done this, and it kind of feels (to me) like you are saying the same thing over and over and keeping it on the surface, therefore not really saying much.It would be a much stronger song if you could go deeper - give the listener a reason to care or a way to relate to you/understand you.Food for thought. Good luck!Now that's profound. I don't have much to say yet, because this post is such an eye opener. Casey's last post reinforces the point which is well taken...The irony is, here's a guy who never opens up, who writes one of the most revealing songs he's ever risked -- and manages to not really open up anyway Thanks for the observation. I have a new perspective from which to evaluate and rewrite.Aub

[andreh]

Quote:Quote:Aub,I am feeling alienated by this song because you never say WHAT your pain is, where it came from, what happened to you, etc. When I read/hear your lyrics, I am expecting you to go further into the story, develop with each verse, give me some background, etc. You haven't done this, and it kind of feels (to me) like you are saying the same thing over and over and keeping it on the surface, therefore not really saying much.It would be a much stronger song if you could go deeper - give the listener a reason to care or a way to relate to you/understand you.Food for thought. Good luck!Now that's profound. I don't have much to say yet, because this post is such an eye opener. Casey's last post reinforces the point which is well taken...The irony is, here's a guy who never opens up, who writes one of the most revealing songs he's ever risked -- and manages to not really open up anyway Thanks for the observation. I have a new perspective from which to evaluate and rewrite.AubOn the other hand, if you're shooting for film/TV placement then you may be harming your chances if you go into too much detail. Pain in general is universal, and can be used in many contexts (or scenes); pain because your pet mouse died will only work in the second sequal to Stuart Little, and I'm not sure Michael J. Fox is up to it.You do place your success as an artist higher on the list of priorities, so maybe more detail is in order.Andre

[Casey H]

Quote:Aub,I am feeling alienated by this song because you never say WHAT your pain is, where it came from, what happened to you, etc. When I read/hear your lyrics, I am expecting you to go further into the story, develop with each verse, give me some background, etc. You haven't done this, and it kind of feels (to me) like you are saying the same thing over and over and keeping it on the surface, therefore not really saying much.It would be a much stronger song if you could go deeper - give the listener a reason to care or a way to relate to you/understand you.Food for thought. Good luck!Good discussion... There is a very fine line as to a song's potential between being too general and being too specific. Too specific and maybe too personal and nobody gets it or feels they can connect with it... Too general has merit for film/TV but is often met with the "I don't know what this song is about" comment.And we must not forget the performer vs. non-performer issue. If the goal is, as in Aubrey's case, more to market yourself as an artist, you have a lot of freedom. If people come to your gigs and/or buy your CD's, who cares if they don't know exactly what a song is about? If you want someone else to sing your song, well that's a whole different ballgame.Are we having fun yet? LOL Casey

[aubreyz]

Quote:Are we having fun yet? LOL CaseyI'm having a blast... though these lyrics may not sound that way Okay... slept on it a little... tossed some ideas around, and here's where I am. I'll post all the lyrics here for convenience - the new sections are bolded. My goal is to be specific enough to tell a more complete story, but still vague enough to have at least some placement potential. I haven't recut the vocals yet--(if you could feel my phlegm... ***Post Edit*** I did a one take vocal with the new lyrics. although it needs fixing and stacking, I like the performance and style much better - For reference I'm posting the old and new versions for your listening pain, and would appreciate your feedback again if it's not too much trouble. OriginalRevisedMusic Page in case the other links don't workI see in your eyesYou want to love meI feel in your touchYou want to save me from myselfYou believe you’re meant to beThe Messiah for my needsBut there's not a lot of me worth savingIf you could feel my painWould you look at me the sameIf you could hear my tortured thoughtsWould you have to turn away‘Cause I'm a freak show of a manYou would know how weak I amIf you could feel my painStop asking me whyI am so quietI'm screaming insideThere are no right words to explainMy Daddy taught me howTo take it like a manIf it doesn't show you don't have to say itIf you could feel my painWould you look at me the sameIf you could hear my tortured thoughtsWould you have to turn away‘Cause I'm a freak show of a manYou would know how weak I amIf you could feel my painSuperman is who I wanted to beBut the Riddler and the Joker disagreed They poured me a glass of kryptonite I drank it all to prove that they were rightYou threw my glassInto the fireBottled my excuse and put it high upon a shelfI don’t really need it nowTo be all that I amI can let you down all by myselfIf you could feel my painWould you look at me the sameIf you could hear my tortured thoughtsWould you have to turn away‘Cause I'm a freak show of a manYou would know how weak I amIf you could feel my painIf you could feel my pain

[Casey H]

Quote:Quote:Are we having fun yet? LOL CaseyI'm having a blast... though these lyrics may not sound that way Okay... slept on it a little... tossed some ideas around, and here's where I am. I'll post all the lyrics here for convenience - the new sections are bolded. My goal is to be specific enough to tell a more complete story, but still vague enough to have at least some placement potential. I haven't recut the vocals yet--(if you could feel my phlegm... ***Post Edit*** I did a one take vocal with the new lyrics. although it needs fixing and stacking, I like the performance and style much better - For reference I'm posting the old and new versions for your listening pain, and would appreciate your feedback again if it's not too much trouble. OriginalRevisedMusic Page in case the other links don't workI see in your eyesYou want to love meI feel in your touchYou want to save me from myselfYou believe you’re meant to beThe Messiah for my needsBut there's not a lot of me worth savingIf you could feel my painWould you look at me the sameIf you could hear my tortured thoughtsWould you have to turn away‘Cause I'm a freak show of a manYou would know how weak I amIf you could feel my painStop asking me whyI am so quietI'm screaming insideThere are no right words to explainMy Daddy taught me howTo take it like a manIf it doesn't show you don't have to say itIf you could feel my painWould you look at me the sameIf you could hear my tortured thoughtsWould you have to turn away‘Cause I'm a freak show of a manYou would know how weak I amIf you could feel my painSuperman is who I wanted to beBut the Riddler and the Joker disagreed They poured me a glass of kryptonite I drank it all to prove that they were rightYou threw my glassInto the fireBottled my excuse and put it high upon a shelfI don’t really need it nowTo be all that I amI can let you down all by myselfIf you could feel my painWould you look at me the sameIf you could hear my tortured thoughtsWould you have to turn away‘Cause I'm a freak show of a manYou would know how weak I amIf you could feel my painIf you could feel my painHi AubI like the vocal on this take a lot. I think you could repeat "If you could feel my pain" 2x (only) at the very end.Regarding lyrics, I think my input regarding Nickelback made things worse here. This new bridge has a style that is way out of character for the rest of the lyric. Most of the song's lyric style, esp. v1 and v2, is fairly direct and this bridge is very metaphoric.My view on a bridge is it should amplify the storyline by adding something that really isn't covered in the verses. However, the writing style can't suddenly shift. The Nickelback song is mainly metaphoric throughout (not suggesting you do that).Many writers do the bridge by going back to the verses, looking for unique things that maybe can be said later and moving them to the bridge. For example, the Messiah concept or the "Daddy" thing could be in the bridge. So, I'd scrap this whole superhero thing.I know you want to hold on to having a verse 3, but you really don't need it. It's not just about song length, it's about structure. When you come out of a bridge into a breakdown chorus and then a full repreat chorus, you bring the listener back to the hook better and by that point, hopefully you said it all. My song, "Frankly Scarlet" may have the same issue, whereby it has a 3rd verse out of the bridge (which itself may be too long). The possible saving grace is that there is a shortened verse there, something you could also consider. And yes, sleep on everything even if for a week or two... Everything seems different when you walk away from it for a while... PS I was just singing the song in the shower! That's a good thing- you have a hook! Cheers Casey

[aubreyz]

Quote:Hi AubI like the vocal on this take a lot. I think you could repeat "If you could feel my pain" 2x (only) at the very end.Thanks for the feedback. I have been toying with adding back the end repeat.Quote:Regarding lyrics, I think my input regarding Nickelback made things worse here. This new bridge has a style that is way out of character for the rest of the lyric. Most of the song's lyric style, esp. v1 and v2, is fairly direct and this bridge is very metaphoric.My view on a bridge is it should amplify the storyline by adding something that really isn't covered in the verses. However, the writing style can't suddenly shift. The Nickelback song is mainly metaphoric throughout (not suggesting you do that).Many writers do the bridge by going back to the verses, looking for unique things that maybe can be said later and moving them to the bridge. For example, the Messiah concept or the "Daddy" thing could be in the bridge. So, I'd scrap this whole superhero thing.The superhero thing is actually an idea that's been floating around for a while that I thought might work here. Though I'm not sold on it at all. In this case it may not work, but overall I don't have an issue introducing metaphors in a bridge or being literal in a bridge for a metaphoric song. Not to say it's working here, but it can work.Kryptonite, Joker, Riddler come off as kind of cheesy at that part of the song structure and melody. I think the metaphors aren't working because they are too campy for the subject matter - not because they are metaphors.I'm going through this process in public - which may or may not be a good idea, (especially with a song that seems this personal) but I will often run through many versions of things - It's a little easier to break out the red pen with songs that are less personal, but it's worth the effort to try and be as objective as possible.Quote:I know you want to hold on to having a verse 3, but you really don't need it. It's not just about song length, it's about structure. When you come out of a bridge into a breakdown chorus and then a full repreat chorus, you bring the listener back to the hook better and by that point, hopefully you said it all. My song, "Frankly Scarlet" may have the same issue, whereby it has a 3rd verse out of the bridge (which itself may be too long). The possible saving grace is that there is a shortened verse there, something you could also consider. Losing the 3rd verse is becoming more of an option. I did a quick edit, and I know it works --- so the third verse (any version) is now only hanging by a thread.Quote:And yes, sleep on everything even if for a week or two... Everything seems different when you walk away from it for a while... PS I was just singing the song in the shower! That's a good thing- you have a hook! Cheers CaseyIf you enjoyed the fact that the hook was going through your head, then that's a good thing. I've heard some songs that were so bad that the awfulness was in and of itself a hook -- or more like a barb.Thanks again for your input. I'm waiting to hear from some of the other jury members before a final verdict. (not that this is a trial by jury, the final sentence will be mine --- sorry for the unavoidable pun Aub

[Casey H]

Hey AubWriting in public is difficult... and, of course, you will get a lot of cooks trying to mess with your soup. It's so much easier for a person to have all sorts of comments and suggestions when someone else puts up their song for critique than to see the forest through the trees on their own work. I am working on a lyric re-write of a very personal song right now and I am getting ready to post it. Then we can all have some more "fun", LOL cheersCasey