Is it ethical for a library to ask for writer's share?
Moderators: admin, mdc, TAXIstaff
- DesireInspires
- Serious Musician
- Posts: 1358
- Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:06 pm
- Gender: Male
- Location: Miami Beach
- Contact:
Is it ethical for a library to ask for writer's share?
I recently learned of a company that has asked for composers to give up a portion of the writer's share of royalties for placements on a certain show. The production company wants 100% of the publisher's share. Is this ethical?
- jdstamper
- Serious Musician
- Posts: 1547
- Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:40 am
- Gender: Male
- Location: Indiana
- Contact:
Re: Is it ethical for a library to ask for writer's share?
Well it's typical for a publishing company to take the full publishing share, hence the name ... (is the production company acting as publisher ... maybe / maybe not)
I wouldn't normally want to give up any of the writer's share ... let's hope this isn't a trend.
But (there's always a but) I might if there's some special circumstance making the deal attractive. In the end, you have to look at all the aspects of a deal to decide what's fair.
I wouldn't normally want to give up any of the writer's share ... let's hope this isn't a trend.
But (there's always a but) I might if there's some special circumstance making the deal attractive. In the end, you have to look at all the aspects of a deal to decide what's fair.
Jim Stamper
Production Music ... from Underscore to Overdrive
https://www.taxi.com/members/jimstamper
Production Music ... from Underscore to Overdrive
https://www.taxi.com/members/jimstamper
- andygabrys
- Total Pro
- Posts: 5567
- Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2011 10:09 pm
- Gender: Male
- Location: Summerland, BC by way of Santa Fe, Chilliwack, Boston, NYC
- Contact:
Re: Is it ethical for a library to ask for writer's share?
I think that's already been and gone.
Irresistible Custom Composed Music for Film and TV
http://www.taxi.com/andygabrys
http://soundcloud.com/andy-gabrys-music
http://www.andygabrys.com
http://www.taxi.com/andygabrys
http://soundcloud.com/andy-gabrys-music
http://www.andygabrys.com
- DesireInspires
- Serious Musician
- Posts: 1358
- Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:06 pm
- Gender: Male
- Location: Miami Beach
- Contact:
Re: Is it ethical for a library to ask for writer's share?
I see. If composers don't have a problem with it, I guess this will become a normal practice for some companies.jdstamper wrote:Well it's typical for a publishing company to take the full publishing share, hence the name ... (is the production company acting as publisher ... maybe / maybe not)
I wouldn't normally want to give up any of the writer's share ... let's hope this isn't a trend.
But (there's always a but) I might if there's some special circumstance making the deal attractive. In the end, you have to look at all the aspects of a deal to decide what's fair.
-
- Committed Musician
- Posts: 588
- Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2007 6:30 pm
- Gender: Male
- Contact:
Re: Is it ethical for a library to ask for writer's share?
This happens somewhat frequently.
When I give up writers share because a production company wants the publishing I either get paid an upfront fee for them to own my copyright and give up a portion of the writers or its non-excuslive and the production company just retitles the track so they can collect publishing on tracks used in their show(s). So then I can still make full writers share on the track elsewhere.
Personally I'm not a big fan of this type of situation because the production company is abusing the "publisher's share" of the performance royalties. They aren't doing any pitching like a publisher and IMO therefor do not earn the money. Its almost like a kickback IMO.
But it happens, and you can make some decent money from those situations. Just be smart about it and don't go crazy and do 100 tracks for a situation like that.
-Steve
When I give up writers share because a production company wants the publishing I either get paid an upfront fee for them to own my copyright and give up a portion of the writers or its non-excuslive and the production company just retitles the track so they can collect publishing on tracks used in their show(s). So then I can still make full writers share on the track elsewhere.
Personally I'm not a big fan of this type of situation because the production company is abusing the "publisher's share" of the performance royalties. They aren't doing any pitching like a publisher and IMO therefor do not earn the money. Its almost like a kickback IMO.
But it happens, and you can make some decent money from those situations. Just be smart about it and don't go crazy and do 100 tracks for a situation like that.
-Steve
- DesireInspires
- Serious Musician
- Posts: 1358
- Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:06 pm
- Gender: Male
- Location: Miami Beach
- Contact:
Re: Is it ethical for a library to ask for writer's share?
Thanks Steve. I will take that into consideration.
- Casey H
- King of the World
- Posts: 14163
- Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 3:22 pm
- Location: Philadelphia, PA
- Contact:
Re: Is it ethical for a library to ask for writer's share?
The word "unethical" may be too strong or inappropriate. Of course, that depends on the situation.
I think without upfront compensation as a work-for-hire, it *generally* is not a good idea because it feeds into this practice and may affect the future for all of us. I say "generally" because every situation is unique and there are never any absolutes.
Casey
I think without upfront compensation as a work-for-hire, it *generally* is not a good idea because it feeds into this practice and may affect the future for all of us. I say "generally" because every situation is unique and there are never any absolutes.
Casey
I LOVE IT WHEN A PLAN COMES TOGETHER!
http://www.caseysongs.com
http://www.soundcloud.com/caseyh
https://www.taxi.com/members/caseyh
http://www.facebook.com/caseyhurowitz
http://www.caseysongs.com
http://www.soundcloud.com/caseyh
https://www.taxi.com/members/caseyh
http://www.facebook.com/caseyhurowitz
- DesireInspires
- Serious Musician
- Posts: 1358
- Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:06 pm
- Gender: Male
- Location: Miami Beach
- Contact:
Re: Is it ethical for a library to ask for writer's share?
I see. Every situation is different. Ethics is a subjective term that has to be properly qualified given the individual circumstances.Casey H wrote:The word "unethical" may be too strong or inappropriate. Of course, that depends on the situation.
Thanks for the insight!
- guscave
- Committed Musician
- Posts: 836
- Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2004 3:48 am
- Gender: Male
- Location: miami, florida
- Contact:
Re: Is it ethical for a library to ask for writer's share?
The practice is not uncommon but it’s not something that I’m a fan of. I can accept giving my publishing share directly to a production company because I will still keep 100% of my writer’s share, but when a library (middleman) is taking part of your writer’s share because they’re not making money from the initial licensing, then I can’t agree to that.
In some ways libraries maybe shooting themselves in the foot with these types of deals. I don’t think too many writers will agree to to do these deals, so a library who is approached by a production company with this type of arrangement may not have many songs to choose from.
Yet on the other hand, since writers are more accepting to give up 100% publishing and keep 100% writer’s share, what’s to stop these production companies from going directly to the writers?
They can easily use services like Taxi to screen the material and get a wide-ranging collection of songs. I still don't see why a production company should have publishing rights to songs your licensing them, but giving up ANY part of your writer's share seems even worse to me.
Just my 2 cents…
In some ways libraries maybe shooting themselves in the foot with these types of deals. I don’t think too many writers will agree to to do these deals, so a library who is approached by a production company with this type of arrangement may not have many songs to choose from.
Yet on the other hand, since writers are more accepting to give up 100% publishing and keep 100% writer’s share, what’s to stop these production companies from going directly to the writers?
They can easily use services like Taxi to screen the material and get a wide-ranging collection of songs. I still don't see why a production company should have publishing rights to songs your licensing them, but giving up ANY part of your writer's share seems even worse to me.
Just my 2 cents…
-
- Serious Musician
- Posts: 3320
- Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 5:02 pm
- Gender: Male
- Location: Los Angeles
- Contact:
Re: Is it ethical for a library to ask for writer's share?
I think it's (at the very least) unethical for a production company or show to ask for the publisher's share as a condition of placement of anybody's music on their show(s). They are not supposed to *get paid* for using another person/company's intellectual property in their money making ventures, they are supposed to *pay* for that privilege.
For them to claim a share or half of the revenue generated by our music is like us saying we deserve a share of their advertising revenue...
When a publisher or library is confronted with the "opportunity" to place music with these companies, they find themselves in the difficult position of either rejecting the deal because they know they will be venturing out on a slippery slope that will ultimately destroy their (and our) ability to run a business, or accepting it based on the belief that there is still some money (and maybe even considerable money) to be made and that if they don't take the deal, someone else will.
If they decide on the latter, their only way of making money is to cut themselves into the writer's share.
Whether *that* practice is unethical is open for debate...however I think it should be *illegal* for shows and production companies to ask for publishing as a condition of placement, because IMHO that is nothing less than a "kickback". In most other businesses and in government, this type of bribery is illegal... ...that's not to say that it doesnt happen anyway
Of course the filpside is that we as composers have made it easier for them to justify engaging in this type of practice by engaging in the equally questionable practice of taking a single song and retitling it several times so we could place it in different libraries, thereby claiming that it is essentially several different copyrights...when clearly, it isn't.
matto
For them to claim a share or half of the revenue generated by our music is like us saying we deserve a share of their advertising revenue...
When a publisher or library is confronted with the "opportunity" to place music with these companies, they find themselves in the difficult position of either rejecting the deal because they know they will be venturing out on a slippery slope that will ultimately destroy their (and our) ability to run a business, or accepting it based on the belief that there is still some money (and maybe even considerable money) to be made and that if they don't take the deal, someone else will.
If they decide on the latter, their only way of making money is to cut themselves into the writer's share.
Whether *that* practice is unethical is open for debate...however I think it should be *illegal* for shows and production companies to ask for publishing as a condition of placement, because IMHO that is nothing less than a "kickback". In most other businesses and in government, this type of bribery is illegal... ...that's not to say that it doesnt happen anyway
Of course the filpside is that we as composers have made it easier for them to justify engaging in this type of practice by engaging in the equally questionable practice of taking a single song and retitling it several times so we could place it in different libraries, thereby claiming that it is essentially several different copyrights...when clearly, it isn't.
matto
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests