Joining Multiple PRO's

[eliotpister1]

Can anybody speak about whether it is viable (or advisable) for a foreign, non-US member to become an ASCAP/BMI/SESAC member IN ADDITION to their own country's PRO?

In my case, I'm a member of SOCAN in Canada. As part of my membership, I've designated ASCAP as my collector of royalties within the US. I have many songs that are self-published. So when something is earned in the US, ASCAP pays SOCAN, and SOCAN pays me ... or at least that's how it should work in theory. My worry with having two PRO's involved in the transaction is a) the possibility for royalties earned to be mishandled or lost in two layers of beaurocracy, and b) the long time it takes for a royalty check to grind its way through the gears and actually make it to my mailbox.

I wonder then, for the sake of simplicity if it would be good to be a member of both ASCAP and SOCAN? I've seen some conversation on other boards about it, but wasn't able to get enough detail as to whether it's a good idea, and what possible pitfalls may be awaiting me?

Anybody out there in a similar situation??

Thanks, Eliot.

[mazz]

As far as I know, you can only be a member of one PRO at a time, at least in the US. I don't know how folks outside the US deal with this. I think Adonis was considering switching to an American PRO at one time, I'm not sure how that went or whether he did it.

But I doubt you can be in two at once.

[guitarhacker]

You only need (want) to join ONE. They have agreements in place between them, to handle any royalties across the borders....

You would want to join the one in your home country.... and only switch if you move to a different country.

[Casey H]

In my case, I'm a member of SOCAN in Canada. As part of my membership, I've designated ASCAP as my collector of royalties within the US.

That's all you need to do and should do.

My understanding is you are only allowed to belong to one PRO.

Best,
Casey

[eliotpister1]

Hey all,

Just to clarify - sort of - I skimmed an online article a couple weeks back detailing how and why a non-US composer would do want to join a US PRO in addition to their country's domestic PRO (in my case, SOCAN). It apparently IS possible, and a growing number of composers with a high volume of regular international placements elect to do this. For instance, if you know you get (or are about to get) a lot of airplay in say, France, you'd join their performing rights society directly in addition to your own country's.

I'll be darned if I can find the article now, but the premise was that taking this approach, you'd receive your performance royalties faster (since for US performances you are closer to the actual collector of the fees), and there would be fewer "hand-off errors" when two PRO's are administering the same royalty payment. However, I'm sure there are some gotcha's as well.

Beyond that, I don't know much, but I sure would love to learn more about the in's and outs from anybody else out there that belongs to two national PRO's with experience using this tactic. Or a somebody that read the same article and can point me back to the link!

I know the normal way to go about it is to sit back and wait 2 years for that cheque to show up at your door, but I'm curious and open to another approach if it allows you to make your car payments sooner.

Cheers, Eliot.

[matto]

Yes it is possible to belong to more than one PRO if all are okay with it and each is collecting in separate territories. In general the PROs discourage this and encourage you to use the traditional system of collecting your foreign royalties from your country's PRO via the reciprocal agreements they have in place. They are not quite unselfish in doing so as they tend to collect an admin fee from foreign royalties before passing them on to you.

There are advantages and disadvantages to both approaches...it's true that you will get your royalties from a foreign country faster by belonging to that country's PRO, and you may even get a bit more. You'll probably also get a more detailed statement.
On the other hand, you may also have tax liabilities in that country. This will vary from country to country, but I'm told that US PROs are required to withhold a very hefty percentage (I think it's 30%) of royalties from foreign residents, and you will need to fill out a US tax form every year to get at (most of) those withholdings.
Also, once you have a decent size catalog, keeping on top of one PRO can be quite a bit of work. I don't know that I would want to have to do that for several. It's a whole lot more admin work, that's for sure...

In the end the question is whether you'd make enough extra income to offset all the extra work you'd have to do. I tend to think no, but I haven't tried it so I'm really just speculating...

matto

Btw I think the article you're talking about was on film music network, I remember reading it as well...

[eliotpister1]

Thanks, Matt. You were right! Here's the article... http://www.filmmusicmag.com/?p=3236

Your comment concerning the time it takes to manage each PRO is definitely worth considering, too. If it's taking away from other fruitful activity like writing, maybe it's not worth it. However, in this day and age, it's just so hard to accept the fact that payment for foreign performances should/could take several years to make it back to you.

Thanks, Eliot.

[Kolstad]

It is possible. I asked a music business lawyer at my Danish PRO "KODA" about this some time ago. One reason to sign with a US pro as a foreigner is, that the US untill recently, had not signed the convention that protects soundrecordings, the (P) as you can read more about in Robin Frederick's book Shortcuts to writing for TV & film http://www.taxi.com/transmitter/1010/hi ... -tips.html , from foreign writers. But now, according to my source, the US HAVE recently signed a mutual agreement with the foreign PRO's, so there are no incentive to double-sign with a US pro anymore. Perhaps unless you need the member benefits like classes ect. when you visit.

[matto]

However, in this day and age, it's just so hard to accept the fact that payment for foreign performances should/could take several years to make it back to you.

I know what you mean, although it should not take "several years" to make it to Canada from the US. For us, Canada runs about 1/2 year behind the US which is quite acceptable.

The other thing to keep in mind is that the slow trickling in of foreign royalties is only an issue in the beginning. Once you've got a good flow going one could even argue it may be beneficial to receive payment for big placements in "installments" over the course of a few years rather than all at once. It makes you less likely to overspend and diminishes your tax liability in any one year.

I know the wait for royalties can seem unbearable in the beginning, but if you fill that time with growing your catalog, chances are when the royalty flow starts it will be more regular and increase faster...

Just my opinion of course...

[eliotpister1]

I think I'll stand pat for now - thanks for the input. It WOULD be interesting to find out how much the admin fee the foreign PRO collects IS on average (in a percentage). Especially for somebody in your position, Matt, the savings could be substantial. Or at least, worth the hassle.

If it's hundreds of dollars, it's worth considering. Does anybody out there have an idea what the average collection fee is?

Thanks, Eliot.