Laptop DAW

[jdstamper]

I'm thinking about buying a laptop as my next DAW PC.

I know you don't get as much bang for the buck, but I'm interested in the portability. I'm looking for feedback from others using a laptop. Especially do you find it productive to work on your tracks only in the box, when not connected to your main gear (audio interface, large display, monitors, etc)?

Of course you can't plug in to your laptop and record without an audio interface. On the other hand, a lot of my time is spent just editing in the box, playing with effects, copying and pasting audio or MIDI clips, cleaning up fades and such. I could do these things while undocked, or do you find it to be such a hassle that you end up being always connected anyway, in which case you may as well just have a desktop PC?

[superkons]

I use a laptop both as a "stationary" and "mobile" recording equipment. I have a couple of items I use only when on the road (XKey37, nanoKontrol 2, two 4-port USB 3.0 hubs), other items are used in my room only: extra screen, 10-port USB 3.0 device, bigger fader controller, 2 full size keyboards (one is a workstation and also my only piece of outboard gear I use). The rest (audio interface, discs) is used in both situations

[RPaul]

Of course you can't plug in to your laptop and record without an audio interface. On the other hand, a lot of my time is spent just editing in the box, playing with effects, copying and pasting audio or MIDI clips, cleaning up fades and such. I could do these things while undocked, or do you find it to be such a hassle that you end up being always connected anyway, in which case you may as well just have a desktop PC?

With the caveat that I haven't been using a laptop for this (other than a little Band-in-a-Box for writing purposes only), purely for editing and the sorts of things you reference here, if you're using Cakewalk by BandLab, it would be possible to use the built-in audio interface in WASAPI mode to do some editing and such. I'm not sure about other DAWs, but someone from BandLab had me try the WASAPI mode with my onboard soundcard on my normal PC (where I usually use a MOTU 828x in ASIO mode) today for troubleshooting an issue, and it seemed to work not that much differently than my normal audio interface in the context you are talking about.

You could conceivably record in that mode, too. However, I'd guess the audio quality would be compromised significantly and/or, if you're just doing MIDI (say with a small keyboard with a USB MIDI interface built in) that latency might be more of an issue than with a better quality audio interface. If you were wanting to record, I'd probably suggest getting an inexpensive, highly portable USB audio interface, too.

Rick

[jdstamper]

Thanks Marco & Rick,

I should clarify I'm thinking of using the "undocked" laptop with no other devices, but only for in-the-box editing (not mobile recording).

So I'm looking for feedback on whether people have been able to use their internal laptop (PC, not Apple) sound device for doing simple in-the-box DAW editing.

Today I'm using Cakewalk Bandlab and I'm just starting to use Studio One a bit. Right now Studio One is sort of my contingency plan in case Cakewalk goes through another major disruption on down the road.

Thanks, Jim

[superkons]

Jim,
Sorry for misunderstanding your question.
No, I have not used just my laptopfor editing, although I might consider it, if I found myself in such a situation when I have got nothing else

[RPaul]

I should clarify I'm thinking of using the "undocked" laptop with no other devices, but only for in-the-box editing (not mobile recording).

Yes, that was my interpretation of your comments. I think it should work with the internal sound card if you use WASAPI mode in Cakewalk. I can't say, though, how well it would perform, as the project's complexity will come into play in addition to the power of your laptop and the limitations of the audio interface. The one I was using this way briefly yesterday (just for some troubleshooting) as a typical Realtek one built-into my desktop's motherboard).

No clue on Studio One support outside ASIO (I tried 3.5 briefly when Gibson discontinued SONAR, but it really didn't suit me; that's also when I started using Cubase, though I use both that and Cakewalk now, and Cakewalk is still much more my comfort zone at this point).

Rick

[cosmicdolphin]

So I'm looking for feedback on whether people have been able to use their internal laptop (PC, not Apple) sound device for doing simple in-the-box DAW editing.

I've done it but not for about 20yrs or so. Even back then I could run Cakewalk Pro Audio 9 on my laptop. Had to use a different soundcard to the built in one back in those days. I had an Echo Indigo which slotted into the PCMCIA port and gave high quality low latency audio. I imagine things have moved on and the internal sounds chips are much better now.

Also if you use CBB don't forget about the Bandlab App, it's a lightweight browser based DAW that runs on anything from a PC to a smartphone. You can use it to sketch out a track which will sync in the cloud so you can open it in Cakewalk to finish it off. It's pretty slick actually.

Mark

[jdstamper]

So it sounds like most people are still using desktops, or laptops that stay connected to their rigs.

The Bandlab app sounds interesting as a scratch pad for ideas. I might check that out. I remember in the final days of Sonar, there was a Sonar phone app to begin projects that could then be opened in full Sonar. I had just started using it on the phone but it was short-lived when Gibson pulled the plug on Sonar.

I had some accidental experience using my Presonus 1824 interface with Sonar and Wasapi, before I was able to get ASIO working. It did work on my desktop but I don't think it's supported by Presonus. ASIO works better.

Jim

[RPaul]

So it sounds like most people are still using desktops, or laptops that stay connected to their rigs.

The Bandlab app sounds interesting as a scratch pad for ideas. I might check that out. I remember in the final days of Sonar, there was a Sonar phone app to begin projects that could then be opened in full Sonar. I had just started using it on the phone but it was short-lived when Gibson pulled the plug on Sonar.

I had some accidental experience using my Presonus 1824 interface with Sonar and Wasapi, before I was able to get ASIO working. It did work on my desktop but I don't think it's supported by Presonus. ASIO works better.

I can't speak for others, but I use my desktop because of strong preference in various areas. For one thing, I have three 2 TB disks (one for project audio streaming, one for OS and apps, and one for sample library storage and streaming -- I actually wish I'd gone with four as my sample library drive is getting pretty full as I also use that for other media such as my photo library and sometimes videos). I also built my own system, including using an extremely quiet case, and, if I ever need to go beyond 16 GB of RAM, I can easily add more. And my tower can sit under my desk out of the way. Of course, with a laptop you can connect other peripherals such as a real keyboard (I detest laptop keyboards) and mouse (I detest trackpads) and larger screen (even the biggest laptop screens are too small) and so on, but that seems to me like a workaround for what is essentially not the right system to start.

That said, if you are frequently needing to start in your studio and do other parts elsewhere, maybe it is worth the hassle of that workaround stuff. Or, if you're more mobile than not (e.g. some of the electronic music producers who do DJing), then making the laptop the main system might be a necessity. I also have the impression that a lot of younger sorts prefer laptops to desktops these days.

I do have a laptop that I use when I need to do things outside my studio, and I got a powerful enough one (and with as big a screen as practical) that I can run a DAW on it if needed. But, thus far, I haven't really been all that tempted to do it for actual use. (My main reasons for configuring my laptop that way were in case I want to use virtual instruments live in the future and in case I want to record live shows at some point. For the latter, I'd probably just use my MOTU 828x interface as it can use USB, even if I use it via Thunderbolt on my desktop. If just doing the former, I'd probably use a smaller audio interface.) However, if I was wanting to do things like edit projects while traveling, without the recording needs, I'd probably do something very much like what you're asking about, including just using the WASAPI interface with the onboard audio to avoid having to connect even one additional device, unless that made it too painfully slow or some such thing. As it is, that is why I have Band-in-a-Box on my laptop (i.e. so I can use it for songwriting and arrangement ideas when traveling and don't have a keyboard available -- I'm not a guitar player).

As for WASAPI and ASIO, it really depends on which drivers are the best for your particular audio interface. CbB supports both. I don't know about other DAWs. I think WDM/KS was a Cakewalk-only thing on the DAW side, and a number of audio interface vendors either didn't support it at all or did a substandard job in their support, thus making ASIO preferable. I have recently heard of some issues with WASAPI and Focusrite devices (in the most recent CbB 2019.11 -- they have a hotfix at a release candidate level to try and address that). But for onboard audio cards, they'll rarely have ASIO drivers, so it is either use WASAPI, or one of the older Windows interfaces (MME, WDM), or use something like ASIO4ALL, which puts an ASIO layer on top of WDM (I think).

Rick

[GBall]

This is all just me of course:

I have been from the beginning a laptop person, and I don't think I could even consider NOT working at any reasonable pace without the portability of a laptop. Without it my productivity would be nil. Though I'm on a Mac, I used a PC for the same purpose for a long time.

I transfer a careful subset of my libraries as needed to my internal SSD. I do that whenever I can even if I'm home connected to a TB drive because waiting or streaming from an external drive is SOOO much slower and less stable. It really is THAT much of a drag on my productivity. Its a crazy difference. So - laptop with a fairly big SSD and plenty of RAM. I archive projects that I'm not currently working on to the cloud to manage space as much as for safety.

Sonarworks Systemwide Reference 4 was a major quality of life improvement, as it was key to breaking out of the cycle of where something I mixed on headphones would sound crappy when I got home or vice versa. Being able to (mostly) trust what you hear is the most important thing for a laptop IMO. I know there are limits to that with a sound card, but it is good enough to keep me productive most days. I do have a portable interface to go with my rack version, but most days I prefer the freedom (when I'm remote) of having no cords or dangling bits.

Keep or sweep man.

Greg