References didn't match listing criteria?

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References didn't match listing criteria?

Post by jbasscase » Fri Mar 26, 2021 7:07 pm

Hello- I’m interested to get some advice from some of you folks. I got this one returned and I totally get what critique is saying about the melody getting in the way of dialog, but I’m also confused about the reference songs they provided. I’m just trying to learn from this so I can do better- it just seems to me that what they were looking for was quite a bit different than two of the three references they gave.


Here is the listing:

Lots of LIGHT DRAMEDY INSTRUMENTAL CUES are needed by a Music Library with a great history of Reality TV placements!
Please submit well-composed, LIGHT Dramedy Instrumental Cues that could work well in quirky and funny scenes in the context of Reality TV shows. Craft your pieces around a singular motif, and create a sense of forward-movement and dynamics by layering instrumentation in and out as they progress. Instrumentation in the same general vein of the references will suit your submissions well. Be sure to avoid submitting anything that sounds too busy, as it could interfere with a scene’s dialog. Your production and any and all software sounds you use need to be polished and modern, as well.


Here is one of the references they gave that I chose to use as my “template” of sorts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3_Fh24 ... leod-Topic

Here is the cue I wrote:
https://soundcloud.com/jbasscase/shifty-eyes

Here’s my critique:

"This is good, although, the use of the mallets and the wind melody can be problematic with dialog. Try an alt-arrangement and remove the melody and let the accompaniment drive the track. The dialog acts like a melody, so if there is a lot of melodic activity going on, there can be a conflict. The track has a good playful tension, although, it could benefit from a revision in the arrangement to get closer to the desired sound referenced and requested in the listing."

So in a nutshell, I’m interested in hearing how mine was so different from the reference. And also, in trying to learn from this, it seems like it’s more important to pay attention to what the listing says, rather than the actual references provided- is that accurate? I know some instrumental listings that have references with vocals will say, for instance, that "even though the reference has vocals, we're looking for instrumental cues only". It just confused me as to why they would put songs as references that have melodies that (at least by my ears) could distract from the dialog, when that's not what they were actually looking for at all. I'm interested in hearing back from Taxi members about this! Thanks!
Last edited by jbasscase on Sun Mar 28, 2021 8:22 am, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Listing references question

Post by TonySollazzo » Sat Mar 27, 2021 2:35 am

Hi - sorry to say but the link to your song isn't public so can't compare, and neither is the link to the critique.

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Re: Listing references question

Post by jbasscase » Sat Mar 27, 2021 6:34 am

Thanks for letting me know about the links not being public- I just fixed it in the original post!

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Re: Listing references question

Post by Kolstad » Sun Mar 28, 2021 6:59 am

That is a really good critique. Pls take it heart, and you will get a lot of success with your cues.
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Re: Listing references question

Post by jbasscase » Sun Mar 28, 2021 8:29 am

Kolstad wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 6:59 am
That is a really good critique. Pls take it heart, and you will get a lot of success with your cues.
Hi! I totally appreciate the review I got, but I just get confused about the references being, at least by my ears, different from what the listing was asking for. I had a few other tracks returned a while ago that were looking for "monster truck rally"-style rock instrumentals, and in those I did let the accompaniment drive the track, and they got returned because there wasn't enough of a melody. In those, I listened to the reference tracks, I listened to monster truck rally videos on Youtube, and didn't hear a major melody, it was more interesting rhythm guitar riffs, etc- so that's what I turned in and like I said- they got returned for not enough melody. Now this latest one is getting returned for too much melody. After getting this latest review, I definitely now do see that part written in the listing (keep it simplistic so that it doesn't get in the way of dialog), but the references had melody in them, so I feel that by using the references it led me down the wrong path.

It's not always clear to me what they're looking for. The listings feel like a different language that I don't speak yet, that's why I'm reaching out for more input from members who have been around longer. In a nutshell- I'm just confused about when to actually take the references they provide to heart or not. Can you provide any guidance on this question?

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Re: Listing references question

Post by AlanHall » Sun Mar 28, 2021 10:04 am

jbasscase wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 8:29 am
It's not always clear to me what they're looking for. The listings feel like a different language that I don't speak yet, that's why I'm reaching out for more input from members who have been around longer. In a nutshell- I'm just confused about when to actually take the references they provide to heart or not. Can you provide any guidance on this question?
You're not alone! I plan to follow this thread so I can find out when you do! ;)

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Re: Listing references question

Post by jbasscase » Sun Mar 28, 2021 10:47 am

AlanHall wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 10:04 am
jbasscase wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 8:29 am
It's not always clear to me what they're looking for. The listings feel like a different language that I don't speak yet, that's why I'm reaching out for more input from members who have been around longer. In a nutshell- I'm just confused about when to actually take the references they provide to heart or not. Can you provide any guidance on this question?
You're not alone! I plan to follow this thread so I can find out when you do! ;)
Hi Alan! Glad to know it's not just me- so you've had similar experiences? After having several forwards, I start thinking that I "get" it a little bit- so it's like "AHHHH what am I not understanding?" when I get returns where I feel like I did a pretty good job vibing with the reference tracks, etc (as I explained above). Obviously in this case, yes- I can easily make an alternate edit w/o the melody, but I just wish that I would've understood that from the original listing so that I could've turned THAT version in in the first place. Again- I'm learning.... the listing does say something along those lines, but 2 of the 3 reference tracks were not that way.

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Re: References didn't match listing criteria?

Post by AlanHall » Sun Mar 28, 2021 2:44 pm

My biggest point of confusion centers on the listings where the text of the listing and the ref tracks don't really correlate to me. It could be me over-thinking the listing - imagining a call for something different than what the text explicitly states. Or perhaps me not getting the subtleties of the language of the listing - missing the connotations of what the ask really is.
There's still a great deal of learning for me to do about library tracks; I've been encouraged to visit some existing library's web pages in order to listen to what has been previously declared "OK" for sync.

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Re: References didn't match listing criteria?

Post by jbasscase » Sun Mar 28, 2021 3:19 pm

AlanHall wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 2:44 pm
My biggest point of confusion centers on the listings where the text of the listing and the ref tracks don't really correlate to me. It could be me over-thinking the listing - imagining a call for something different than what the text explicitly states. Or perhaps me not getting the subtleties of the language of the listing - missing the connotations of what the ask really is.
There's still a great deal of learning for me to do about library tracks; I've been encouraged to visit some existing library's web pages in order to listen to what has been previously declared "OK" for sync.
Yeah I totally get that about the text and references not correlating to what I know, or not getting the subtleties of the language. It's definitely like learning a new language.

Visiting existing libraries sites- that's a good idea! Thanks for the tip! I also have been learning a lot from the forwards blog for both my returns and forwards.

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Re: References didn't match listing criteria?

Post by AlanHall » Sun Mar 28, 2021 6:22 pm

jbasscase wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 3:19 pm
I also have been learning a lot from the forwards blog for both my returns and forwards.
Oh yeah! The forwards blog is our best bet to "hear as the screeners hear".

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