May I Scream in Frustration in here (safely)?

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Merryband1
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May I Scream in Frustration in here (safely)?

Post by Merryband1 » Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:46 pm

I've been trying to record my Celtic harp for DAYS now. That Renaissance instrumental listing deadline is rapidly approaching (Dispatch, I think), and I finally have the composition licked, but my recording just isn't working. A day or so ago, I had it just about perfect, and then when I listened back on the monitors (JBL MKIIs), I could hear distortion. Really loud, annoying distortion. Which would be great if I was going for some off-the-wall, heavy Rock harp (IS there such a thing?) but it doesn't sound right in the Renaissance. I thought maybe the lavalier mic I had inside the harp was touching the wood somewhere, but I fixed that problem and it still distorted, though not as badly. I am running the lavalier and the Gauge 58 through an Alesis i04. I don't have a dedicated RCA to 1/8" monaural plug, so I've plugged half of the RCA into the transceiver and then plugged the 1/8" plug into a 1/4" adaptor so it'll fit into the Alesis input. (I tried switching the right and left RCAs tonight to see if that would help. It didn't.) The Gauge is plugged into the XLR outlet. The phantom power is turned on. The Alesis is connected to the computer by USB. The DAW seems perfectly happy, and I can hear it in the headphones when I record, but then tonight, the recording wasn't high enough in volume. I have no idea what to do. I'll try again tomorrow, of course, but if I had a clue how to make it better, it would help.

Not quite so
Merry
tonight

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Re: May I Scream in Frustration in here (safely)?

Post by gitanosoy » Wed Mar 31, 2021 12:13 am

I am trying to visualize the whole cable and mic stuff.

Is your 1/4 adaptor jack TRS or TS mono or stereo?

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Re: May I Scream in Frustration in here (safely)?

Post by cosmicdolphin » Wed Mar 31, 2021 12:29 am

Probably something to do with the lav mic - transceiver - iO4 connection.

Could be the transceiver battery on it's way out , or could be some sort of level or impedance mis match.

Not that I've ever had to record a Celtic harp but personally I'd never use a lav mic for a serious recording of that type of instrument as it's not really what they're designed for.

I don't know the guage 58 but if it's similar to an SM58 , again it's probably not the mic I'd choose for a stringed instrument being a dynamic mic which is probably designed to help boost vocal presence. A matched pair of condenser mics would probably be the approach I would take.

If you have no other options just try it with the 58 and see if the distortion is gone then try the lav mic by itself. Change the transceiver battery for a new one see if it helps. It works be better to not have the transceiver in the signal path at all so buy the right adaptor.

Mark

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Re: May I Scream in Frustration in here (safely)?

Post by cassmcentee » Wed Mar 31, 2021 5:01 am

I agree with Mark, just use the 58
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Re: May I Scream in Frustration in here (safely)?

Post by Merryband1 » Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:33 am

Sigh. Thanks, guys! I really appreciate the input!

The 1/8" to RCA cable looks something like this: Image
The 1/8" to 1/4" adaptor plug is gold stereo, like this: Image
I have some monaural RCA to RCA cables, but I've lost the RCA to 1/4" adaptor, if I ever had one.
The i04 (discontinued) looks like this: Image I'm using this as the interface between my mics and the computer. I plugged the 58 into the first XLR input and the 1/4" adaptor plug from the transceiver into the second Mic/Line In plug. (Maybe I should try the Insert plug instead??) That gave me both channels in the DAW for a stereo effect (which will be handy if I ever get to record a real piano again). I also tried switching the input selector (extreme right side) from 1-2 to Main, which gives more volume for some reason.

The Gauge 58 is very much like a Shure 58. Image I won it in a TAXI TV giveaway when Rob Chiarelli was still in charge of the company, so it's one of the good ones. It's also the only mic I have at the moment that is anything like good. I have another wireless mic Image that feeds into the same transceiver unit as the lavalier, but I replaced the battery in it and it still doesn't work. The transceiver looks like this: Image and is wired, not battery-operated (unlike the lavalier transmitter). I have tried adjusting the Squelch as well as the Volume but I was still getting distortion, possibly from being too close to the source? The lavalier looks like this: Image I will try replacing the batteries in the lavalier transmitter and see if that changes anything. Not sure what happened to the full-size microphone, but it wasn't great to start with, being from Radio Shack (although it did work well for years, to give it its due-- I bought it for live gigging). The other Radio Shack microphone may be a condenser mic, but I plugged it into the interface and couldn't get anything out of it. Image It's decades old. I used to have a bunch of cassette recording microphones, but I have no idea where they are, and they probably never had much Hz range, anyway. I did have a telescopic microphone, but I don't know what happened to it.

I'll give it another shot and rearrange stuff, using the 58 and bringing the line in as mono. That's about all I can do at the moment since I can't run right out to a music store and get condenser mics. I'd try to order some from Amazon, but they'd never get here before the deadline.

Slightly less frustrated after your caring advice,
Merry

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Re: May I Scream in Frustration in here (safely)?

Post by MBantle » Wed Mar 31, 2021 1:22 pm

Merryband1 wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:46 pm
I've been trying to record my Celtic harp for DAYS now. That Renaissance instrumental listing deadline is rapidly approaching (Dispatch, I think), and I finally have the composition licked, but my recording just isn't working. A day or so ago, I had it just about perfect, and then when I listened back on the monitors (JBL MKIIs), I could hear distortion. Really loud, annoying distortion. Which would be great if I was going for some off-the-wall, heavy Rock harp (IS there such a thing?) but it doesn't sound right in the Renaissance. I thought maybe the lavalier mic I had inside the harp was touching the wood somewhere, but I fixed that problem and it still distorted, though not as badly. I am running the lavalier and the Gauge 58 through an Alesis i04. I don't have a dedicated RCA to 1/8" monaural plug, so I've plugged half of the RCA into the transceiver and then plugged the 1/8" plug into a 1/4" adaptor so it'll fit into the Alesis input. (I tried switching the right and left RCAs tonight to see if that would help. It didn't.) The Gauge is plugged into the XLR outlet. The phantom power is turned on. The Alesis is connected to the computer by USB. The DAW seems perfectly happy, and I can hear it in the headphones when I record, but then tonight, the recording wasn't high enough in volume. I have no idea what to do. I'll try again tomorrow, of course, but if I had a clue how to make it better, it would help.

Not quite so
Merry
tonight
You say you can hear distortion but what do the meters tell you (you say your DAW 'is happy' - does that mean the levels are healthy)? Apologies if I missed that part of the conversation.
Cheers,
Matt

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Re: May I Scream in Frustration in here (safely)?

Post by Merryband1 » Wed Mar 31, 2021 1:40 pm

Thanks, yes, Matt, the levels are fine. I think the distortion may be from buzzing in the instrument that the lavalier is picking up. I'm changing the batteries right now (if I can get the battery case open!), and about to check the setup again to see what I can do to it to make it better. I wish I had some old-school analog VU meters as it's easy to see on them when something is overmodulating. Although overmodulation is definitely NOT a problem in this case---it's more intermodulation and trying to get it loud enough without a ton of resonance. The harp strings tend to ring on and on, a LOT.

Merry

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Re: May I Scream in Frustration in here (safely)?

Post by Merryband1 » Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:05 pm

Just tried it again, and I think it's probably better, but I won't know until I can listen to the take (which will have to be redone because I didn't have it quite in tune, and I made mistakes). (However, Mom is watching TV now, so my recording/editing time will have to wait). Oh, and I found two slightly corroded batteries in my NEW six-pack! I don't have the sales slip, so I just tossed the bad ones. Frustrating, though.

Still somewhat happier
Merry

PS make that 3 corroded batteries. And they weren't cheap, either. :shock:

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Re: May I Scream in Frustration in here (safely)?

Post by cosmicdolphin » Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:35 pm

To be honest you probably need much better mics to make a decent recording of that instrument.

There was once an article on recording a harp in Sound on Sound Mag with may help a little https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques ... p-location

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Re: May I Scream in Frustration in here (safely)?

Post by Merryband1 » Wed Mar 31, 2021 5:50 pm

Thanks, Dolphin. I know it can't be wonderful with my 58, but it sounds SO much better than it did... I'll post a link when I get the recording edited. I appreciate the link! :)

Merry

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