Michael Anderson - Are you a Songwriter?

[Kelil]

I just got the following article in my inbox from the Taxi Transmitter and really enjoyed it. However there is something I feel Michael overlooks. He talks about the different types of songwriters. The final type of Songwriter he focuses on is the ''addict''. Ya know, that person who works 24/7 of whom you ask to bring you three songs next week and sure enough they will.

He says that it's the addict that is monetary successful and is always the one who will beat the hobbyist and the sideliner to it. This is fine yes but he misses a very important fact. There is the music addict who writes great tunes and does not have the financial backing to record and produce his three songs to you next week, thus his potential success is somewhat stumped as a result of this.

And if record labels continue to be stubborn in their search for a quick buck by looking for artists who already have a backing, sell many records and have retain a huge fanbase, then the real talented ones they should be developing will just run right under their nose.

A bit off the topic of my initial post but just want to dig this in and humbly throw this out to labels, publishers and producers/managers who view the forum. If I already sell over 10 -20,000 thousand records a year ( and it's climbing ) and I have like 50,000 fans and pack venues all around my country and I'm in the charts and doing well and already developed.... Why do I need your help/investment? *scratches his head*

Fantastic article Michael Anderson but there is a fine line between the addict who has cash to invest in his addiction and the talented addict who would be just as successful but he doesnt have the financial backing to pursue and make that addiction become a reality. I bet you already know this but somehow didnt think of sticking in our article so sorry if I am coming across as a bit of a self styled expert in songwriting. *blush*

http://www.taxi.com/transmitter/1201/ar ... XX00000001

[moomy]

OK, I can't help it. You may all get together and throw me off this forum but I can't let this one pass.

Kelil You said in another thread you are getting antsy because you haven't heard back from forwards in the first year. Casey said you need more songs and it takes time.

This post seems t take that one further in that the big labels are simply overlooking the little guy with a half dozen songs because they are missing out on how special he is.

There are something like 20,000 people on this forum. There are those who write songs because it is the same as breathing. They can't help it. They can't stop it. And they will do anything it takes to keep doing it.

Jason Blume told us one time that he literally lived on cat food to keep on making music, going to conferences, working the worst kind of jobs to get recordings paid for.

Now I'm going to get personal. My kids have given ten years to songwriting. They gave up having their own home, a car, decent clothes, any kind of vacations etc., and sometimes got pretty short on food. The car went for equipment to record their music, and a decent mic. They finally have a real studio. Until last year everything was recorded in a spare bedroom in our house.

I was just sorting through the files today and decided to put all my personal favorites of our songs into one playlist. There are 82 that made the grade. Over 600 that didn't. There are stacks of CDs of melodies that aren't even made into songs but they were recorded on a cell phone and transferred just to keep them.

Gee, why aren't the big labels beating down our door? Maybe - Because we haven't earned it. Because we haven't done the rest of the business. Because it takes gigging, promoting, being on Taxi and getting involved with people in the business. Maybe because the music isn't good enough yet. That's a whole topic by itself but after the first 150 or so songs you start to hear the difference between the good songs, the really good songs, and the ones that will probably make some money. Oh yea, and Maybe because we aren't submitting to artist listings.

But I believe from the bottom of my heart that these music addicts I am proud to be associated with will leave their mark in music history even if only a handful of people ever hear them. They wrote and recorded a song for my brother's funeral last year. All of heaven heard that. And it was deemed a hit.

So please don't feel you have been neglected because someone hasn't handed over a million dollar studio for you to record your music or even a fifty thousand dollar one. If you must create music because you can't think about life without doing it, then you are on the right track. Find someone with a home studio who will help. But if you want to see how much you make on a few songs before you make any more, you might want to rethink your career choice.


My apologies for the rant everyone.

[cardell]

Great, great response Moomy!!

Find someone with a home studio who will help.

Yes! ...and/or pick up one of these: http://www.zoom.co.jp/english/products/h4n/

Stephen, I had the exact opposite problem to you when I was in my twenties: I had interest from EMI Australia, they were blown away by my vocals...but I had NO damn songs!

Instead, I ended up doing session vocals in one of the top studios here in Melbourne, wishing I could write something great (or at least good) for myself.

It's rare that everything comes together in life...at the right time.

Stuart

[Len911]

Great replies! Stephen, I think you are getting artists and performers and record label signings mixed in with songwriting. Sometimes they might be all one in the same, though often not. Here is a link to an article I read the other day in the newspaper about Shelby Lynne, and her numerous record deals, songwriting and such, it may offer a little insight:

http://www.kansascity.com/2012/01/11/33 ... helby.html

[michael11]

Hi Stephen.

I love your work and I love the fact that you are Irish and you will be well aware that some of the biggest names in Pop and Rock are Irish or have an Irish background.

U2,Beatles etc.

There's another fella with an Irish background that you may have heard of who's just been nominated for four Brits,Ed Sheeran.

It's worth looking at his biog to see how he achieved his success and while your at it check out how Michael Laskow got his first job in a studio!

These are lessons worth learning.

I don't think you realise what an endorsement of your talent a Taxi forward is.


Stick with it,don't falter at the first fence.

Mick.

Latterly of Co Mayo

[mojobone]

A bit off the topic of my initial post but just want to dig this in and humbly throw this out to labels, publishers and producers/managers who view the forum. If I already sell over 10 -20,000 thousand records a year ( and it's climbing ) and I have like 50,000 fans and pack venues all around my country and I'm in the charts and doing well and already developed.... Why do I need your help/investment? *scratches his head*

We touched on this in Kirbie's thread, but I don't mind repeating that major labels are for a million and a quarter's worth of promotional push and expertise; it's only when there's demonstrated mainstream appetite for what you offer that it can ever be to your advantage, and nine out of ten who get it end up owing more than they can ever recoup. I'm sure, btw, that you didn't mean for your post to come off as whining, but I guess it kinda did, to some.

[Kelil]

Moomy ITS OK to RANT

The reason I whinge and moan is to get your advice. The whole reason of being Objective to a particular subject for me is to somehow come to a better conclusion of that subject and get down to the truth. I need honest answers like yours and I'm glad your not watering it down.

But a little part of me still thinks its Immoral, unjust and just Greedy of record labels to wait until someone is well established first before they decide to piggy back on their sucess on order to make a quick and easy buck. They call it business but I'm not sure how that is good business because if I'm already making all that money I dont neccesarily need their help and there are many major bands who continue to do it on small time labels without their help. I think that if a label approached me in the height of my own established success I'd view their pitch to me as an insult.

What happened the good old glory days where labels developed? I'm sure that even the most successful artists who have made it on their own ( such as the frames ) would agree. So it's not just about ''poor'' old me whining. And yes I am whining

Look at that young one Amy Mac Donald. She sent in a demo to the NME of just her on acoustic to a listing of a producer looking to develop and pitch her to labels. He invested in her. She signed with vertigo records and became hugely successful. She had to be developed from the ground up because she had no fan base other than her open mic nights at starbucks. All she had was her acoustic tunes. So I still say labels are missing out on a good thing like Amy.

What do you think?

[moomy]

Ahh thanks Stephen. I'm glad you came back on this. I really didn't want to offend. I do think I was responding not only to you but to my own angst over the weirdness of the music industry that I felt several years ago. I was a victim of magical thinking. It's a business. I had to start thinking business.

"The reason I whinge and moan is to get your advice. The whole reason of being Objective to a particular subject for me is to somehow come to a better conclusion of that subject and get down to the truth. I need honest answers like yours and I'm glad your not watering it down. "

Since I'm not a musician (lyricist only) my objectivity is only from a listener perspective. I agree you have some really good music and it's unique. That's not enough. The most troublesome thing we can get when we start making music is a big compliment on a song. We had one that several screeners called a hit song. But…. you need to change a lyric…. but …. you need a little more drum… less synth….more rock…. less rock, etc. Then send it back to (insert big company name here). Thirteen revisions later and two years of (insert expletive here) it up, we laid "Room Full of You" carefully to rest and never opened it again. Meanwhile we weren't writing much else because that "hit" was just around the corner. We were waiting for the money to come in before moving on. We completed about a dozen other songs in that two years. You just gotta say - make it, pitch it, and MOVE ON. Next song.

"But a little part of me still thinks its Immoral, unjust and just Greedy of record labels to wait until someone is well established first before they decide to piggy back on their sucess on order to make a quick and easy buck. They call it business but I'm not sure how that is good business because if I'm already making all that money I dont neccesarily need their help and there are many major bands who continue to do it on small time labels without their help. I think that if a label approached me in the height of my own established success I'd view their pitch to me as an insult. What happened the good old glory days where labels developed?

This one is easy. The INTERNET and the HOME STUDIO. The good old days where labels developed had far fewer musicians. Often they were paid very poorly and locked into terrible contracts. On the labels defense it can literally cost millions to develop and promote a top artist. Those studios cost into the millions. Many of which are on the market in LA for pennies on the dollar these days. The labels have to compete against us, not the other way around. Instead of a few artists making the X known quantity of $ in the music industry. there are tens of thousands. You can blame the internet or you can see that free enterprise at its best has taken over. This is what the 99% wants. A fair chance to sell their own products, not be driven out of business by the big corporations. Your competition has simply changed. You're not competing with Dylan AKA Columbia records. You're competing with the guys on this forum. It's a lot more fun and a lot more fair.

"I'm sure that even the most successful artists who have made it on their own ( such as the frames ) would agree."

Some would agree, some would not. Many have bought out their own contracts just to be free. Another thing with the major labels is you will lose control of your artistic material. You'll create what they want you to create. And that's fine. After all it is their money. But if you create an album that they never release - and you're bound by contract to make seven more that may never be released, well - big bummer. If you want the freedom to swing with whatever your muse happens to be singing in your ear that day, you need the space and room, AKA lack of other people's money - to call your own shots. Doesn't matter if you're selling potatoes or songs, if someone else has become your business owner, they get to put their packaging on it. They get to leave it on a shelf in the warehouse if they don't want to sell it.

"Look at that young one Amy Mac Donald. She sent in a demo to the NME of just her on acoustic to a listing of a producer looking to develop and pitch her to labels. He invested in her. She signed with vertigo records and became hugely successful. She had to be developed from the ground up because she had no fan base other than her open mic nights at starbucks. All she had was her acoustic tunes. So I still say labels are missing out on a good thing like Amy. "

Ah but she found a producer who developed her. That's were the market is today. It's small guys helping other small guys get bigger. And they both get bigger, and eventually they get noticed. Many of them turn down the corporate contracts because the entrepreneurial relationships work at their best in music. Collaboration has a whole new meaning these days. It's a business model that's hard to beat.

"So it's not just about ''poor'' old me whining. And yes I am whining
What do you think?"

No you're actually not whining. You're doing what we all do. Going through the process of figuring this out. The question to ask yourself now is not " Should I wait and see how much money I make on these songs (potatoes) before I make more? " The question is- "How many songs (potatoes) do I need to stock my store. Better start digging and planting. You wouldn't want an Grand Opening day rush and run out at 9 AM.

I am certain they are going to be delicious.

[michael11]

Ahh thanks Stephen. I'm glad you came back on this. I really didn't want to offend. I do think I was responding not only to you but to my own angst over the weirdness of the music industry that I felt several years ago. I was a victim of magical thinking. It's a business. I had to start thinking business.

"The reason I whinge and moan is to get your advice. The whole reason of being Objective to a particular subject for me is to somehow come to a better conclusion of that subject and get down to the truth. I need honest answers like yours and I'm glad your not watering it down. "

Since I'm not a musician (lyricist only) my objectivity is only from a listener perspective. I agree you have some really good music and it's unique. That's not enough. The most troublesome thing we can get when we start making music is a big compliment on a song. We had one that several screeners called a hit song. But…. you need to change a lyric…. but …. you need a little more drum… less synth….more rock…. less rock, etc. Then send it back to (insert big company name here). Thirteen revisions later and two years of (insert expletive here) it up, we laid "Room Full of You" carefully to rest and never opened it again. Meanwhile we weren't writing much else because that "hit" was just around the corner. We were waiting for the money to come in before moving on. We completed about a dozen other songs in that two years. You just gotta say - make it, pitch it, and MOVE ON. Next song.

But a little part of me still thinks its Immoral, unjust and just Greedy of record labels to wait until someone is well established first before they decide to piggy back on their sucess on order to make a quick and easy buck. They call it business but I'm not sure how that is good business because if I'm already making all that money I dont neccesarily need their help and there are many major bands who continue to do it on small time labels without their help. I think that if a label approached me in the height of my own established success I'd view their pitch to me as an insult.

"What happened the good old glory days where labels developed?

This one is easy. The INTERNET and the HOME STUDIO. The good old days where labels developed had far fewer musicians. Often they were paid very poorly and locked into terrible contracts. On the labels defense it can literally cost millions to develop and promote a top artist. Those studios cost into the millions. Many of which are on the market in LA for pennies on the dollar these days. The labels have to compete against us, not the other way around. Instead of a few artists making the X known quantity of $ in the music industry. there are tens of thousands. You can blame the internet or you can see that free enterprise at its best has taken over. This is what the 99% wants. A fair chance to sell their own products, not be driven out of business by the big corporations. Your competition has simply changed. You're not competing with Dylan AKA Columbia records. You're competing with the guys on this forum. It's a lot more fun and a lot more fair.

"I'm sure that even the most successful artists who have made it on their own ( such as the frames ) would agree."
Some would agree, some would not. Many have bought out their own contracts just to be free. Another thing with the major labels is you will lose control of your artistic material. You'll create what they want you to create. And that's fine. After all it is their money. But if you create an album that they never release - and you're bound by contract to make seven more that may never be released, well - big bummer. If you want the freedom to swing with whatever your muse happens to be singing in your ear that day, you need the space and room, AKA lack of other people's money - to call your own shots. Doesn't matter if you're selling potatoes or songs, if someone else has become your business owner, they get to put their packaging on it. They get to leave it on a shelf in the warehouse if they don't want to sell it.

Look at that young one Amy Mac Donald. She sent in a demo to the NME of just her on acoustic to a listing of a producer looking to develop and pitch her to labels. He invested in her. She signed with vertigo records and became hugely successful. She had to be developed from the ground up because she had no fan base other than her open mic nights at starbucks. All she had was her acoustic tunes. So I still say labels are missing out on a good thing like Amy.

Ah but she found a producer who developed her. That's were the market is today. It's small guys helping other small guys get bigger. And they both get bigger, and eventually they get noticed. Many of them turn down the corporate contracts because the entrepreneurial relationships work at their best in music. Collaboration has a whole new meaning these days. It's a business model that's hard to beat.
"So it's not just about ''poor'' old me whining. And yes I am whining
What do you think?"

No you're actually not whining. You're doing what we all do. Going through the process of figuring this out. The question to ask yourself now is not " Should I wait and see how much money I make on these songs (potatoes) before I make more? " The question is- "How many songs (potatoes) do I need to stock my store. Better start digging and planting. You wouldn't want an Grand Opening day rush and run out at 9 AM.

I am certain they are going to be delicious.

Hi Judy!

I don't know if you helped Stephen but you certainly helped me.

Such wise words and so eloquently put.

Mick.

[cardell]

Hi Judy!

I don't know if you helped Stephen but you certainly helped me.

Such wise words and so eloquently put.

Mick.

I agree...

...this is one of THE BEST posts I've ever read on this forum...GOLD!

Another thing with the major labels is you will lose control of your artistic material. You'll create what they want you to create. And that's fine. After all it is their money. But if you create an album that they never release - and you're bound by contract to make seven more that may never be released, well - big bummer. If you want the freedom to swing with whatever your muse happens to be singing in your ear that day, you need the space and room, AKA lack of other people's money - to call your own shots. Doesn't matter if you're selling potatoes or songs, if someone else has become your business owner, they get to put their packaging on it. They get to leave it on a shelf in the warehouse if they don't want to sell it.

Yes, I don't think outsiders realize this fact. I saw this happen more than once.

Stuart