Middle Eastern Flavored Trailer - 2nd Attempt

[timothycook]

The track Forgotten City is my second attempt at this genre.
The first one didn't go so well.

All comments are appreciated.

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A Lot of EPIC TRAILER-Style INSTRUMENTALS with a "MIDDLE EASTERN Flavor" are needed by an International Music Library with worldwide distribution through Universal!

NOTE: We previously ran this request as TAXI Listing #D201112ME, but the Library wants to hear MORE material. If you submitted to listing #D201112ME, please send different material this time around.

Send them Instrumentals in the general stylistic ballpark of the references below:


Muhteşem Yüzyıl Kösem - Teaser 1

"Day Of The Falcon" Trailer


"Dajjal The Slayer and His Followers" Trailer

Please submit well-composed Instrumentals with a noticeably Middle Eastern sound and style that could work well in the context of huge, epic movie trailers. Your submissions should have three “acts” that build to a climactic crescendo. Building excitement and intensity as your pieces progress is a must for this pitch! Think heart-pounding Hollywood Trailer tracks, but with Middle Eastern scales and instrumentation – that's what they're hunting for!

TAXI TIP: For this request, you could try going outside the box a bit by replacing brass hits with a Zorna, or replacing Timpani or Taiko drums with a Daf and/or a Tar drum, etc. Your Submissions can also have some non-lyrical, Middle Eastern-sounding vocalizations. That’s not a requisite… just a suggestion.

Your submissions should be around 3 minutes in length, give or take, and definitely no shorter than 2 minutes and 30 seconds. Non-faded, Buttoned/Stinger endings will work best. Do NOT copy the references in any way, shape, or form. Use them only as a general guide for tempo, tone, and overall vibe. Broadcast Quality is needed.

[Ted]

Hey Tim,

Nice work on this one. It seems like a big improvement over the previous one.

I like the motif in the beginning-- maybe the oud could use some more reverb/delay effects to give it a bit more distance and space/ less in-the-box sound.

From :14 to about :50 is a percussive section. It's cool, but I think it needs some more layers as it builds-- maybe at around :36 you could add some medium/low percussive sounds (maybe something subtle at a quarter note pulse) to give some lower frequency energy moving foward as it moves into the pause before the second movement.

The second movement sounds good but it gets a little looplike after the first 8 bars as it continues-- there's a nice riser effect bridging up the the third movement. I'd make sure that you are adding something every 8 bars-- especially in this middle section. I've been getting dinged for "too repetitive" to the point where I'm not going to take a chance anymore-- I'm going to err on the side of being like a robot making sure there is a new element every 8 bars. So maybe as it progresses just thread some string pads or something in to keep the screener's ear from getting bored.

The third movement is a restatement of the original motif. I'd consider maybe rearranging this theme-- in the third movement-- in different instrumentation and maybe with a slightly different tempo/feel/mood. Maybe you keep it with Middle Eastern instrumentation entirely--or this is the time you reach into the Western palette and use strings/piano/etc and bridge the two. Or you can shadow the Middle Eastern instruments with Western ones.

At about 2:22 the cue is building toward a climactic ending. I like the drums that come in there and the final riser-- again, I'd think about using some low strings to keep the intensity building-- maybe some low brass too.


I'd put a bit more work into it, mostly with regard to layering and adding/changing some instrumentation-- but it's sounding good. I'm not an expert in this genre but I like it.

Ted

[timothycook]

Awesome feedback Ted.


Thanks so much for the tips.

--Tim

[Dandillinger]

Good work on this. Really liked many of your instrument choices. Agree with Ted's points so I won't go into those details. My main concern is that the third movement needs to be more epic. Although it is to be a Middle Eastern flavor, you will need some western instruments to get to that epic feel. Maghreb violins blended with western violins and violas would give the mid-east feel with a more epic sound. Middle eastern horns are not enough, western brass is needed for the sharpness and intensity in an epic trailer. I know it is tough to blend in western instruments and yet keep a middle eastern feel but I think it is the only way to get there. Very nice effort.

[timothycook]

Thanks for the excellent feedback.
I REALLY appreciate your time.

I believe I have addressed all the issues. Especially the Epic comments.

I couldn't get strings, especially low strings to seem to fit right.

I did go with some brass and woodwinds with a build-up in the third section.

If you have a few minutes I would appreciate more comments on Forgotten City.

[Ted]

OK Tim, I had a few listens.

Nice work. I like this much better in some ways, but there are a few things that will need attention. Let's have a look.

I like the beginning-- the only thing wrong with the first movement is that at around :28 seconds, the high pitched drumming becomes so frenetic and fast that it doesn't even sound natural at that point. I'm curious what kind of VI you are using for the Middle Eastern stuff, knowing that might help. I've messed around with NI's Middle Eastern collection-- it's pretty cool-- I'm guessing that might be what you're using, but I'm not sure. But anyway, I like everything in the first movement except those high fast hand drums are going so fast it sounds like someone holding an angry grasshopper by the wing. It sounds like the drums are about to oscillate into an audible frequency. I'd fix that. But the rest of the drums in that part leading up to the second movement sound really good to me.


The second movement is really good- but there is one thing in there that is going to need a fix. At around 1:16 there are a few loud piercing squeaking sounds-- I counted two--I'm sure that they are some kind of articulation on whatever ethnic instrument VI you are using, but man are they loud and squeaky! haha. I don't doubt that they are authentic articulations of the instrument, but I was listening to the track through my monitors while I was doing something else and those little squeaks made me jump a little. After listening a few times, I'd say maybe you can leave them in but see if you can get them further down in the mix-- either lowering the velocity of your MIDI trigger notes-- or maybe using EQ to soften them-- or perhaps a compressor to tame the peaks a little. Maybe a combo-- so they sound more like a bit of a subtle harmonic flourish-- not notes in themselves. Shouldn't be a tough fix.

I really dig your transition to the third movement. Very good job on that. Nice pro sound there.

The beginning of the third movement-- I don't think the flute and brass are playing well together as is. They combine in such a way that it sounds buzzy-- almost like it's a flute that is clipping/distorted or someone is in the room playing a kazoo. I don't know if that can be fixed by a different articulation of brass or a different instrument patch-- or if its just the way it's all orchestrated together. Maybe you need some additional instruments in the mid-range to bridge the highs of the flue and the low brass. Use your ears on that part til it sounds right.

It starts sounding better to me again at around 2:13 -- I don't know if those are low winds there-- whatever those ascending stabs are-- though part of the way through it, I start to get an old detective show feel. Maybe it's just me and my random associations. Feel free to ignore. Also the stab at 2:16 is out of time-- a bit late I think. Nudge it back into the grid.

From about 2:20 to the end, it sounds really good to me. Maybe if I were to nitpick, I'd say there are a few sharp ends poking out of the brass stabs, dynamically-- but again, that's if I'm nitpicking. Very nice ending. Much more epic sounding.

So to recap-- I think basically you have three make-or-break things to fix-- one in each movement. The hypersonic percussion in the first; those two squeaks in the second; and the orchestration at the beginning of the third movement. Beyond those three things, I think you have a solid piece of work with a good structure and a nice feel and sound to it.

Ted

[feaker66]

Hi I don't know anything on how to make a track like this. I do know I liked it and it sounds very well done. I like the pumping vibe the best.
I was wondering how you play the notes. They are so fast. Is this done with a keyboard? I do everything live with guitars, so I am in unchartered waters
congrats on digging back in and making those improvements

[timothycook]

OK Tim, I had a few listens.

Thanks, I'm gonna owe you a few cold ones for all this feedback.

Nice work. I like this much better in some ways, but there are a few things that will need attention. Let's have a look.

I like the beginning-- the only thing wrong with the first movement is that at around :28 seconds, the high pitched drumming becomes so frenetic and fast that it doesn't even sound natural at that point. I'm curious what kind of VI you are using for the Middle Eastern stuff, knowing that might help. I've messed around with NI's Middle Eastern collection-- it's pretty cool-- I'm guessing that might be what you're using, but I'm not sure. But anyway, I like everything in the first movement except those high fast hand drums are going so fast it sounds like someone holding an angry grasshopper by the wing. It sounds like the drums are about to oscillate into an audible frequency. I'd fix that. But the rest of the drums in that part leading up to the second movement sound really good to me.

Yes, I'm using the NI Middle Easy Discovery series.
I thought the Riqs were pretty fast too. But they are the MIDI clips right from the instruments. So, I'll manually edit them into sanity.

The second movement is really good- but there is one thing in there that is going to need a fix. At around 1:16 there are a few loud piercing squeaking sounds-- I counted two--I'm sure that they are some kind of articulation on whatever ethnic instrument VI you are using, but man are they loud and squeaky! haha. I don't doubt that they are authentic articulations of the instrument, but I was listening to the track through my monitors while I was doing something else and those little squeaks made me jump a little. After listening a few times, I'd say maybe you can leave them in but see if you can get them further down in the mix-- either lowering the velocity of your MIDI trigger notes-- or maybe using EQ to soften them-- or perhaps a compressor to tame the peaks a little. Maybe a combo-- so they sound more like a bit of a subtle harmonic flourish-- not notes in themselves. Shouldn't be a tough fix.

I found 2, D2 notes on the Tsnbur causing this. It was really strange; I played with the velocity and I moved them up an octave and they still did it. I muted them and added 2, D2 notes in their place, they don't do it. That's a really strange thing. <shrug>

I really dig your transition to the third movement. Very good job on that. Nice pro sound there.

The beginning of the third movement-- I don't think the flute and brass are playing well together as is. They combine in such a way that it sounds buzzy-- almost like it's a flute that is clipping/distorted or someone is in the room playing a kazoo. I don't know if that can be fixed by a different articulation of brass or a different instrument patch-- or if its just the way it's all orchestrated together. Maybe you need some additional instruments in the mid-range to bridge the highs of the flue and the low brass. Use your ears on that part til it sounds right.

That was just a really bad sounding Tuba. (Alpine Brass).

It starts sounding better to me again at around 2:13 -- I don't know if those are low winds there-- whatever those ascending stabs are-- though part of the way through it, I start to get an old detective show feel. Maybe it's just me and my random associations. Feel free to ignore. Also the stab at 2:16 is out of time-- a bit late I think. Nudge it back into the grid.

Okay.

From about 2:20 to the end, it sounds really good to me. Maybe if I were to nitpick, I'd say there are a few sharp ends poking out of the brass stabs, dynamically-- but again, that's if I'm nitpicking. Very nice ending. Much more epic sounding.

Nawww, you aren't nit-picking. I was a little lazy on the expression and modulation on those.

So to recap-- I think basically you have three make-or-break things to fix-- one in each movement. The hypersonic percussion in the first; those two squeaks in the second; and the orchestration at the beginning of the third movement. Beyond those three things, I think you have a solid piece of work with a good structure and a nice feel and sound to it.

Ted

I am so grateful for your time and helpful suggestions.

I'll post an updated version later today with those fixes; plus a few things I wanted to tighten up as well.

Cheers,
Tim

[timothycook]

Hi I don't know anything on how to make a track like this. I do know I liked it and it sounds very well done. I like the pumping vibe the best.
I was wondering how you play the notes. They are so fast. Is this done with a keyboard? I do everything live with guitars, so I am in unchartered waters
congrats on digging back in and making those improvements

Well, I've watched ALOT of Youtube videos and read ALOT of Facebook group posts.
As you can see from Ted's critiques, I'm just now starting to get there.

Part of it is played in with a keyboard and some of it is canned MIDI provided by the libraries. Though with the canned stuff you still need to edit it some. Then you have to edit the Expression and Modulation to add realism.

In some tracks (not this one) I also use my guitar direct and I also occasionally use MIDI Guitar 2 by Jam Origin. Mostly just for fun and to say I did PLAY it. Not because it is easier or better.

[timothycook]

I'm not sure it'll ever be a Forgotten City if I have to keep revisiting it.

I do have a question.

Around 2:23 and after, is the Kemence colliding too much with the brass in that area?

I messed about some with EQ but I seemed to do more harm than good so I quit.

Cheers,
Tim