Midi Guitar Composing??? UPDATE!! Up and running, Thanks All

[jfraizer]

I am looking for suggestions, reviews, issues etc.. regarding midi guitar devices. I have never used them.
I am a guitarist venturing into the midi composing world and think I could save a world of time using a guitar midi controller, since my piano skills are pretty basic.

Thanks

[2lane]

Hey Jen,
I used to have one of the first real MIDI guitars out there in the 90's. It was the Ibanez model, A real guitar that had a
big bulky cable(about twice the size of a good mic cable) that went to the converter box. It didn't have sounds built in, but was useful for slower type stuff. I kinda wish I still had it, could put it to some use right now.
I had been looking into this a few months back, and my sales rep at Sweetwater claims the Midi guitar stuff is the best it's ever been right now.
Looks like you'll spend $600 - $800 on the bottom line stuff. Axon used to have a $200 pickup that my rep told me worked real good for the money, but I don't see it for sale anymore. If you do get something, please let me know what you got and how it worked out. If Martin (guitarero) chimes in, he has the Axon stuff I think, or at least did. He's a good guy and will give you
the word straight up.
Here's a link to Sweetwater's stuff

http://www.sweetwater.com/c593--Synth_Guitars

If the link doesn't work, just type in midi pickups in their search box
Good hunting Jen!
Steve

[Kolstad]

I use midi guitar all the time..

You need a 13pin system in your guitar and an interface to convert audio (signals) to midi (numbers).

I'd suggest looking into an Axon AX50 http://www.axon-technologies.net/module ... 6&menu=102 as interface, as you get more control with the Axon than with the Roland GI20 (those are the two most accesible options today) http://www.roland.com/products/en/GI-20/ . The Axon track's a little better ión the lower strings, especially when you set it up properly in the software editor. These interfaces have no built in sounds, but tracking issues are very few in todays boxes. You can even shred and get really good tracking ('tracking' is how the notes played on your guitar translates to midi).

I also use a Roland GR20 synth with built in sounds, which I love for it's playability http://www.roland.com/products/en/GR-20/ . It actually tracks pretty well (so it IS possible to use this as a guitar/midi interface to track your Vi's), but the big advantage is to record it as audio, so you don't strain your computer. I sometimes run it through my tube guitar amp and record with two mic's. It's amazing what that can do in terms of realism on strings, brass and synth patches.

You can get actual synth ready guitars like Fender Roland Ready http://www.fender.com/products/search.p ... 0144660306 and several of Godin's. I have a Godin freeway SA http://www.godinguitars.com/godinfreewaysap.htm . More brands are putting synth access in their guitars now, and high end brand Parker also have one. You can also just get a Ghost system and install it yourself in your favourite guitar, or have your luthier do it http://www.thomann.de/gb/graph_tech_gho ... kit_st.htm .

There's a script for the Native Instrument sampler Kontakt (for v3 and v4), called Gtak http://evenharmonic.com/products/gtak which allows you to play it as a multi, meaning you just play the samples in Kontakt like on a keyboard. I use that all the time, works like a breeze. But midi guitar works nicely for any Vi.

There are of course things that's not so easy to play on guitar, if you are to play it for realism, so it won't completely replace a keyboard or piano, but it's so much fun and your creativity will benefit from the boost it gives you, when you hear that Urdu flute sweep across your fretboard Here's a fun vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tben3v6Y ... re=related

I have yet to explore it to it's limits, but it's just a whole new world opening up for you, when guitar is your main instrument. Often guitarist's feel the urge to play long solo's, and that's great, but it's often on music that doesn't HAVE guitar solos Midi guitar let's you keep feeling you are playing guitar, even if you haven't recorded an actual guitar solo for months.

I can highly reccomend it, Jen!

[2lane]

I use midi guitar all the time..

You need a 13pin system in your guitar and an interface to convert audio (signals) to midi (numbers).

I'd suggest looking into an Axon AX50 http://www.axon-technologies.net/module ... 6&menu=102 as interface, as you get more control with the Axon than with the Roland GI20 (those are the two most accesible options today) http://www.roland.com/products/en/GI-20/ . The Axon track's a little better ión the lower strings, especially when you set it up properly in the software editor. These interfaces have no built in sounds, but tracking issues are very few in todays boxes. You can even shred and get really good tracking ('tracking' is how the notes played on your guitar translates to midi).

I also use a Roland GR20 synth with built in sounds, which I love for it's playability http://www.roland.com/products/en/GR-20/ . It actually tracks pretty well (so it IS possible to use this as a guitar/midi interface to track your Vi's), but the big advantage is to record it as audio, so you don't strain your computer. I sometimes run it through my tube guitar amp and record with two mic's. It's amazing what that can do in terms of realism on strings, brass and synth patches.

You can get actual synth ready guitars like Fender Roland Ready http://www.fender.com/products/search.p ... 0144660306 and several of Godin's. I have a Godin freeway SA http://www.godinguitars.com/godinfreewaysap.htm . More brands are putting synth access in their guitars now, and high end brand Parker also have one. You can also just get a Ghost system and install it yourself in your favourite guitar, or have your luthier do it http://www.thomann.de/gb/graph_tech_gho ... kit_st.htm .

There's a script for the Native Instrument sampler Kontakt (for v3 and v4), called Gtak http://evenharmonic.com/products/gtak which allows you to play it as a multi, meaning you just play the samples in Kontakt like on a keyboard. I use that all the time, works like a breeze. But midi guitar works nicely for any Vi.

There are of course things that's not so easy to play on guitar, if you are to play it for realism, so it won't completely replace a keyboard or piano, but it's so much fun and your creativity will benefit from the boost it gives you, when you hear that Urdu flute sweep across your fretboard Here's a fun vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tben3v6Y ... re=related

I have yet to explore it to it's limits, but it's just a whole new world opening up for you, when guitar is your main instrument. Often guitarist's feel the urge to play long solo's, and that's great, but it's often on music that doesn't HAVE guitar solos Midi guitar let's you keep feeling you are playing guitar, even if you haven't recorded an actual guitar solo for months.

I can highly reccomend it, Jen!

Or Magne, another real good one

[jfraizer]

Thanks Steve. I was looking at some of the products from the link you gave.
On the description of the Roland GR 20-s it says

"The GR-20 S makes playing high-quality synthesizer sounds from any steel-stringed electric guitar (including
Les Paul-type instruments)"

Do humbucker pickups not translate well to midi?

My favorite guitars is a Les Paul, so I wonder.

[jfraizer]

I use midi guitar all the time..

You need a 13pin system in your guitar and an interface to convert audio (signals) to midi (numbers).

I'd suggest looking into an Axon AX50 http://www.axon-technologies.net/module ... 6&menu=102 as interface, as you get more control with the Axon than with the Roland GI20 (those are the two most accesible options today) http://www.roland.com/products/en/GI-20/ . The Axon track's a little better ión the lower strings, especially when you set it up properly in the software editor. These interfaces have no built in sounds, but tracking issues are very few in todays boxes. You can even shred and get really good tracking ('tracking' is how the notes played on your guitar translates to midi).

I also use a Roland GR20 synth with built in sounds, which I love for it's playability http://www.roland.com/products/en/GR-20/ . It actually tracks pretty well (so it IS possible to use this as a guitar/midi interface to track your Vi's), but the big advantage is to record it as audio, so you don't strain your computer. I sometimes run it through my tube guitar amp and record with two mic's. It's amazing what that can do in terms of realism on strings, brass and synth patches.

You can get actual synth ready guitars like Fender Roland Ready http://www.fender.com/products/search.p ... 0144660306 and several of Godin's. I have a Godin freeway SA http://www.godinguitars.com/godinfreewaysap.htm . More brands are putting synth access in their guitars now, and high end brand Parker also have one. You can also just get a Ghost system and install it yourself in your favourite guitar, or have your luthier do it http://www.thomann.de/gb/graph_tech_gho ... kit_st.htm .

There's a script for the Native Instrument sampler Kontakt (for v3 and v4), called Gtak http://evenharmonic.com/products/gtak which allows you to play it as a multi, meaning you just play the samples in Kontakt like on a keyboard. I use that all the time, works like a breeze. But midi guitar works nicely for any Vi.

There are of course things that's not so easy to play on guitar, if you are to play it for realism, so it won't completely replace a keyboard or piano, but it's so much fun and your creativity will benefit from the boost it gives you, when you hear that Urdu flute sweep across your fretboard Here's a fun vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tben3v6Y ... re=related

I have yet to explore it to it's limits, but it's just a whole new world opening up for you, when guitar is your main instrument. Often guitarist's feel the urge to play long solo's, and that's great, but it's often on music that doesn't HAVE guitar solos Midi guitar let's you keep feeling you are playing guitar, even if you haven't recorded an actual guitar solo for months.

I can highly reccomend it, Jen!

Awesome Magne, Thanks so much.

How is the pin system installled on my guitar?

Edit: Never mind, I just read the product specs.

Appreciate the response and all the links Magne

[2lane]

Hey Jen, looks like you're good to go with Magne's help. I thank him to for all the info.....cool deal!!
BTW.....Les Paul......you go girl
Steve

[jazzstan]

I have an ancient Roland G2K pickup on a Mexican Strat that goes thru the GR09 - I use the midi-out signal to run into my DAW. I use heavier gauge strings and I usually play finger-style cuz the micro-arpegigos of struming don't always sound good when voiced to a different instrument. I usually have to clean up some artifacts in the midi editor. Also, I find that it sounds better when I try to think more like a keyboardist and not play as a guitar player, so be prepared to alter your playing a bit in some situations.

[jfraizer]

Thanks Jazzstan

Looking at the Roland GK-3 Guitar Pickup and the Axon AX 50 controller. When you read the manual for the pickup they tell you to only use with GK compatible devices. Any reason why these two wouldn't be compatible? 13 pin so I should be good, right?


After doing some more reading, the arched top is the reason for the Les Paul not being compatible with some other set ups. And Steve, ya gotta love em

[crs7string]

Jen,

If you take the plunge into midi guitar and have Kontakt, a great add on is the GTAK software mentioned above.

Normally, midi guitar is in mono mode. This means each string transmits on a different midi channel (1 thru 6, 2 thru 7 etc.) The other choice is all strings on the same midi channel.

When in mono mode you have much more control of bending strings, creating splits etc.

Hence, to play a sound in a VI one would have to load six instances of the same sound ( or different sounds if you want to do splits and layers)

The GTAK software was developed to load its "script" into Kontakt and then load a patch from the Kontakt library. One patch and all six midi channels-Instant Mono Mode!!!

As, or more important, in the scripting you can set the velocity floor and ceiling. The biggest problem in tracking with a midi guitar is false triggers, low velocity stuff like lifting a finger off the string or touching another string. This stuff shows up in midi as very short duration and usually very high midi information (especially false harmonics)

By being able to filter this junk in GTAK you don't hear any of the junk.


Good luck with this endeavor.



Chuck