Mixing Question - Levels

[jdhogg]

I think the term "bit rate" came about when compressed audio files (mp3s) began to be used on the internet for downloads.

I was using term in 1984. Did we have MP3's then?

I am referring to bitrate in the sample and hold process, not making an MP3.

No need to insult me Mazz.

Sample and hold is an analogue process therefore it can have a sampling frequency but as it is strictly not in the digital domain how can it have a "bit rate"..............?
You could say the second stage of an a/d converter effectively had an effective bitrate being linked to the sampling frequency and bit depth but nobody with ANY electronic training would discribe it in such a way.


Dwayne just stay away from electonics theory .......stick to what you know which is HOW to use the tools of the trade.

Your a nice guy trying to be helpfull so dont take my thoughts too hard...........
peace.

[Casey H]

Hey Dwayne
Mazz wasn't being insulting at all. Not sure why you read it that way.

I'm not being insulting either. But it's highly unlikey that audio engineers were using the term "bit rate" in 1984-- at least not as it applied to music itself. Music was still all analog. PC's weren't really around until later in the 80's and the early ones certainly weren't capable of music production. Pro Tools first version was relased in 1991.

In other aspects of electronic engineering, the term probably was used because there were digital electronics and communications systems. "Bit rate" is a term used in electronic communications, not just audio engineering (e.g. how many bits per second are transmitted on a wire).

I'm not talking down to you. This is for everyone's reading-- general discussion.

I certainly don't know everything. I'm always learning...

Best,
Casey

[Dwayne Russell]

I don't see how the sentence you quoted could be construed as insulting, Dwayne. Obviously I don't have the vast background you do in this whole arena of digital audio, so I am here to learn as well, but I thought we knew each other well enough to engage in a little ribbing and still have an adult conversation. If bit rates are insulting, what's next, frequency response!?!!

A little confused

I have no idea how you will insult me next.

I thought I knew you too.

[mazz]

Wow, it's obvious that if I were to continue to communicate with you, I'd break a lot of eggs from walking on them!! So I won't anymore. I'm out.

[Casey H]

I don't see how the sentence you quoted could be construed as insulting, Dwayne. Obviously I don't have the vast background you do in this whole arena of digital audio, so I am here to learn as well, but I thought we knew each other well enough to engage in a little ribbing and still have an adult conversation. If bit rates are insulting, what's next, frequency response!?!!

A little confused

I have no idea how you will insult me next.

I thought I knew you too.

Well, your shirt is quite ugly.

(Don't take it all SO seriously!)

Casey

[gtrmann]

Hi,
I notice a pattern when mixing (in the box) and wanted to see if others do the same or if I'm doing something wrong.
In order to prevent my master from clipping, I find I'm turning my tracks way down, often -10 to -18 dbs. When combined together, I'm getting my master fairly close to 0db however. Is this OK to be turning tracks down this much? I can't help but think it affects the sound quality. And then on the other end of the mix, I'm boosting with a limiter etc. But I can't see any way to avoid this without clipping on the master?
Advice? or is this normal?
Thanks

Yea, I have to do the same thing, both mixing live on a old analog desk, and when I mix in the box......The way I always looked at it is every time you combine tracks, the master level goes up, so you have to take the inputs down.....When you have one input is at 0, thats all she's got captain, you have to bring it down to make room for your other tracks..... When mixing in the box I usually normal all my tracks to zero to get a reference, then I attenuate them by a certain amount......usually about 10 db......In my old world of live sound this is called "setting your gain structure".......

[ernstinen]

Wow! I've been away for a day or so --- What did I start? Sorry if I got my information wrong. Or did I? Now I'm totally confused.

Should I go down to L.A. tomorrow to take UCLA to small claims court?

BTW, one speaker in my class WORKED for Digidesign. I remember this, for sure. He said: "Would you save your precious recordings to a digital medium? *I* sure wouldn't! --- I'd go to analog tape!" Really! An actual quote.

Yea, I have to do the same thing, both mixing live on a old analog desk, and when I mix in the box......The way I always looked at it is every time you combine tracks, the master level goes up, so you have to take the inputs down.....When you have one input is at 0, thats all she's got captain, you have to bring it down to make room for your other tracks..... When mixing in the box I usually normal all my tracks to zero to get a reference, then I attenuate them by a certain amount......usually about 10 db......In my old world of live sound this is called "setting your gain structure".......

When I used my old Soundcraft board (still have it), I would solo the inputs so that each was a bit over 0db. Those were sent to analog tape, also a little over 0db. (The best recordings I ever got!). Then I'd turn the channel inputs down so that each track fader was at 0db. Some faders may have gone up or down from there a bit (not "bits" yet haha!) --- but not much. Cranking the analog board and the tape inputs created such a wonderful sound. I'm still trying to duplicate that in digital. --- I rue the day I sold my Empirical Labs Fatso Jr.

As the world turns,

Ern

[gtrmann]

Wow! I've been away for a day or so --- What did I start? Sorry if I got my information wrong. Or did I? Now I'm totally confused.

Should I go down to L.A. tomorrow to take UCLA to small claims court?

BTW, one speaker in my class WORKED for Digidesign. I remember this, for sure. He said: "Would you save your precious recordings to a digital medium? *I* sure wouldn't! --- I'd go to analog tape!" Really! An actual quote.

Yea, I have to do the same thing, both mixing live on a old analog desk, and when I mix in the box......The way I always looked at it is every time you combine tracks, the master level goes up, so you have to take the inputs down.....When you have one input is at 0, thats all she's got captain, you have to bring it down to make room for your other tracks..... When mixing in the box I usually normal all my tracks to zero to get a reference, then I attenuate them by a certain amount......usually about 10 db......In my old world of live sound this is called "setting your gain structure".......

When I used my old Soundcraft board (still have it), I would solo the inputs so that each was a bit over 0db. Those were sent to analog tape, also a little over 0db. (The best recordings I ever got!). Then I'd turn the channel inputs down so that each track fader was at 0db. Some faders may have gone up or down from there a bit (not "bits" yet haha!) --- but not much. Cranking the analog board and the tape inputs created such a wonderful sound. I'm still trying to duplicate that in digital. --- I rue the day I sold my Empirical Labs Fatso Jr.

As the world turns,

Ern

Hello Ernstein....not sure if you took offense to what I said....?? I was just answering the original question, which asked if anyone had a similar experience mixing... with no reference to any post except the original question......Hope you have a great weekend.... Peace out brother....!!!

[Casey H]

OK, everyone... All together now...

Cum-bay-a my lord, Cum-bay-a...

Peace
Casey

[Dwayne Russell]

When I used my old Soundcraft board (still have it), I would solo the inputs so that each was a bit over 0db. Those were sent to analog tape, also a little over 0db. (The best recordings I ever got!). Then I'd turn the channel inputs down so that each track fader was at 0db. Some faders may have gone up or down from there a bit (not "bits" yet haha!) --- but not much. Cranking the analog board and the tape inputs created such a wonderful sound. I'm still trying to duplicate that in digital. --- I rue the day I sold my Empirical Labs Fatso Jr.

As the world turns,

Ern

Analog signals are -18 to digital signals.