Need "better lyrics" on return S210809NK

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markanthony
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Need "better lyrics" on return S210809NK

Post by markanthony » Fri Aug 20, 2021 8:33 am

Hi everyone. This is my first post in forums, first submission, first return! haha

My question: I agree with the feedback, but asking the community for suggestions. It's hard for me to hear what could be improved in the lyrics based on the feedback. Listening the references, the lyrics seem metaphorical to me. The feedback was lyrics needed improvement and looking for some tips on how.

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My song: "We're Not Alone"

https://soundcloud.com/genxmark_music/w ... and-vocals

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The listing:

MODERN POP SONGS with Female Vocals are needed by a Major Label A&R Executive for a HUGE, Grammy-winning Artist working on her next album.

This Artist is looking for Mid-Tempo Songs that could fit on a playlist with the following references:

"Just Give Me A Reason" by P!NK feat. Nate Ruess

"Elastic Heart" by Sia

"Million Reasons" by Lady Gaga

Although one of the references has some Male Vocals, please submit Songs with Female Vocals only for this request. No Duets, please.

Please send well-crafted Pop Songs with captivating melodies, soaring choruses, and excellent lyrics. Your production and any virtual instruments or samples you use should be high-quality and modern. Expressive, well-performed vocals could be the cherry on top. This Artist is looking for Songs that could land her on the Top 40 charts NOW – give her that!

Your production and recording quality needs to be clean, clear, well-balanced, and good enough to represent your Songs well. Do NOT copy the references in any way, shape, or form. Use them only as a general guide for tone, texture, and overall vibe.

Please submit as many Songs as you'd like, online or per CD; include lyrics. All submissions will be screened and critiqued by TAXI. Submissions must be received no later than 11:59 PM (PDT) on Monday, August 9th, 2021. TAXI # S210809NK

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The feedback:

I think you could improve this song by:

"The lyrics could be strengthened and refined here. The listing requirement is for a "pop song" with "excellent lyrics." Using a more conversational, organic approach mixed with an innovated/edgy spin (rather than metaphorical) would help the listener interpret your song as a pop song with an excellent lyric."

I returned or forwarded this song because:

I am returning this song because it does not fit the listing requirement of "pop song" with "Excellent lyrics."

Box checked: "Lyrics need improvement"

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Lyrics:

--Verse 1
Even when others have let us down
We know where we belong

The best times have yet to be found
Two rights can’t make a wrong

The stars align
Even when planets collide

We have our past that makes us strong

--Pre-Chorus
Maybe it’s not so bad after all
Maybe it is and maybe we’ll fall
Here with you by my side
The wall is crumblin’ down
There’s no fear, no need to hide

--Chorus
We’re not alone
No matter how low we go
We’re home
We’re not alone
No matter how low we go
We’re home

--Verse 2

Looking at broken pieces on the ground
No need to pick them up

Tryin’ to kick you when you are down
Tell me is it enough

My scars my pride
The worst is out of sight

We’re down, all that’s left is up

--Pre-Chorus
Maybe it’s not so bad after all
Maybe it is and maybe we’ll fall
Here with you by my side
The wall is crumblin’ down
There’s no fear, no need to hide

--Chorus
We’re not alone
No matter how low we go
We’re home

--Chorus
We’re not alone
No matter how low we go
We’re home
Last edited by markanthony on Fri Aug 20, 2021 12:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Telefunkin
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Re: Need "better lyrics" on return S210809NK

Post by Telefunkin » Fri Aug 20, 2021 11:32 am

Sorry to say your link doesn't work (although it might do for you).
Also, it might help to post your lyrics.
Graham (UK). Still composing a little faster than decomposing, and 100% HI.

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Re: Need "better lyrics" on return S210809NK

Post by markanthony » Fri Aug 20, 2021 12:42 pm

Telefunkin wrote:
Fri Aug 20, 2021 11:32 am
Sorry to say your link doesn't work (although it might do for you).
Also, it might help to post your lyrics.
Oh! I set my song to public and the lyrics in the upload. I guess the lyrics are only visible by me. I updated the link to point to SoundCloud instead. I couldn't figure how to get a normal link to the song on Taxi. I also updated post with lyrics on the bottom.

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Re: Need "better lyrics" on return S210809NK

Post by darkbluerooms » Fri Aug 20, 2021 2:55 pm

Hey,

I think we were in the new Taxi member Zoom together a few weeks ago. Welcome aboard. I too have sent a few submissions and gotten some feedback.

First I'll address the feedback in general. As far as I can tell, the screeners offer top level observations, and might even skip some other issues that they don't deem as pressing. For example, if you submit a rock song for an EDM listing, they're not going to get to criticizing your arrangement, because it's completely irrelevant. You might later submit to an EDM listing and get dinged on your arrangement.

In the case of this song for example, they didn't mention that the vocals are a little pitchy in places, but based on what I've seen, if you altered the lyrics, you might get a kickback later referencing pitchy vocals. I've found this lack of comprehensive critiques a little annoying, but at least I know that's what I'm up against.

My quick take on the lyrics is that they are generally vague. I listened twice and walked away asking myself, is this about Jesus, lol? So maybe that's part of what they're referring to. The Pink song is about a failing relationship, it specifically talks about that. No one would walk away unclear about the story of the song.

So I'm not going to offer specific word changes but I think the essence of what the screener is saying is the difference between the phrase, "We're not alone," and "We're in this together." The difference between "you made my whole world crumble" and "I saw you with another guy." Others let us down? What did they do? How do colliding planets relate to this story? What's the literal thing that happened? What's not so bad afterall?

It's all quite vague. A little metaphor is fine in Pop, but I'd say the bulk of the phrases in this song are up for interpretation. The referenced songs on the listing are pretty specific.

Hope that helps.

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Re: Need "better lyrics" on return S210809NK

Post by Telefunkin » Fri Aug 20, 2021 4:08 pm

I agree with all of the above comments, and would add that there are a few well-worn phrases in there.
Graham (UK). Still composing a little faster than decomposing, and 100% HI.

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Re: Need "better lyrics" on return S210809NK

Post by markanthony » Fri Aug 20, 2021 5:23 pm

Yes I was in the new member Zoom. Good stuff.
Thx both of you for replying. Good points. So needs be more literal most of the time for pop. I'll pay more attention to pop when I'm listening. Good to know that reviewers may only point out key issues and not considered a full review.

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Re: Need "better lyrics" on return S210809NK

Post by Cameloide » Fri Aug 20, 2021 6:17 pm

markanthony wrote:
Fri Aug 20, 2021 8:33 am
Hi everyone. This is my first post in forums, first submission, first return! haha

My question: I agree with the feedback, but asking the community for suggestions. It's hard for me to hear what could be improved in the lyrics based on the feedback. Listening the references, the lyrics seem metaphorical to me. The feedback was lyrics needed improvement and looking for some tips on how.
This is the kind of feedback that I find misguided (unless you didn't include all of it). It's left you trying to fix a minor problem while not pointing you in the direction of the main issues holding you back. Bob Dylan (or any of the actual top writer's in the pop world) could re write all the lyrics and that wouldn't get you any closer to nailing a "modern pop" listing.

On the other hand if you forced Billie Eilish's brother to produce a modern pop song with these lyrics he could do it, and I bet nobody would say a word about the lyrics. The point being there's a much larger gap you'll need to clear on the production/mixing/vocal performance side before any lyric changes would do you any good. And that will come through scouring the Web for good information from Pros, and through repetition, trial and error, and ruthlessly comparing every facet of your production to A level productions.

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Re: Need "better lyrics" on return S210809NK

Post by markanthony » Fri Aug 20, 2021 7:06 pm

Cameloide wrote:
Fri Aug 20, 2021 6:17 pm
markanthony wrote:
Fri Aug 20, 2021 8:33 am
Hi everyone. This is my first post in forums, first submission, first return! haha

My question: I agree with the feedback, but asking the community for suggestions. It's hard for me to hear what could be improved in the lyrics based on the feedback. Listening the references, the lyrics seem metaphorical to me. The feedback was lyrics needed improvement and looking for some tips on how.
This is the kind of feedback that I find misguided (unless you didn't include all of it). It's left you trying to fix a minor problem while not pointing you in the direction of the main issues holding you back. Bob Dylan (or any of the actual top writer's in the pop world) could re write all the lyrics and that wouldn't get you any closer to nailing a "modern pop" listing.

On the other hand if you forced Billie Eilish's brother to produce a modern pop song with these lyrics he could do it, and I bet nobody would say a word about the lyrics. The point being there's a much larger gap you'll need to clear on the production/mixing/vocal performance side before any lyric changes would do you any good. And that will come through scouring the Web for good information from Pros, and through repetition, trial and error, and ruthlessly comparing every facet of your production to A level productions.
Yeah that is, right? I guess those closer to the top like Fineas don't have to deal with this stuff. Also, to clarify what the listing said: "Your production and recording quality needs to be clean, clear, well-balanced, and good enough to represent your Songs well." and didn't ask for broadcast quality. That is why I made the attempt at submission. Is there more to read in the listings meaning there, then?

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Re: Need "better lyrics" on return S210809NK

Post by RPaul » Fri Aug 20, 2021 11:22 pm

I actually think the screener has things backwards -- the reference songs are a lot more metaphorical than yours, especially in the case of Sia's "Elastic Heart".

My suspicion is that the screener was trying to communicate the need for more specific lyrics, rather than the relatively cliché-laden lines that dominate your lyric. I might go so far as to suggest finding your own unique metaphor to use as the main title, then drilling down to details for images you can sprinkle at strategic places within a conversational lyric.

The problem with the clichés, where they really aren't even all on the same topic, is that they can bounce all over the place, without getting to the meat of anything.

Contrast, for example, the start of the Pink/Nate Ruess song:

Right from the start
You were a thief, you stole my heart
And I, your willing victim


There are a couple of clichés ("right from the start" and "you stole my heart") in those opening lines, but the "thief" and "willing victim" parts add uniqueness and make the "stole my heart" part work, offering some admission of her part in the issue -- i.e. being the willing victim. She gets even more vulnerable in the next few lines.

I think your strongest bit is the start of your second verse:

Looking at broken pieces on the ground
No need to pick them up


But then you switch metaphors in the next two lines:

Tryin’ to kick you when you are down
Tell me is it enough


So I guess the bottom line from my perspective would be to figure out what key metaphor you want underneath your lyric, then get detailed with the lyric, keeping the metaphor relatively consistent, albeit in the context of a conversational lyric (i.e. don't overdo the metaphor -- just keep it consistent where you use it). But, especially, ditch all the unrelated clichés that really don't add anything to your lyric's story.

Rick

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Re: Need "better lyrics" on return S210809NK

Post by markanthony » Sat Aug 21, 2021 4:41 am

RPaul, thank you for that. This gives some good insight and a lesson in lyric writing to me I haven't been able to find before. Especially pointing out that Sia's song is also very metaphorical (I wasn't crazy, right? haha), and also pointing out a specific place in my lyrics that could be improved. Very good tip I will apply in the future. I will relay all the feedback from here to the co-writer/singer as well.

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