Neil's "Southern Man"

ernstinen · Post by **ernstinen** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 1:20 pm

Hey Guys,Is it just me, or is Neil Young's lead vocal on "Southern Man" DISTORTED?I've always thought it was, and heard this song on a classic rock station today, and I STILL think it's distorted!Do ya think this was on purpose, or it was a perfect first vocal take and the engineer didn't have things dialed in, or what? I've never heard this on such an old recording. Maybe in today's digital overload like Metallica's new CD. But this was definitely an analog recording. It's a great record, though.Knowing Neil as as artist, it probably WAS intentional, but still --- What do y'all think?Ern

matthoggard · Post by **matthoggard** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:24 pm

I think he used distortion (overdrive) on it. Ive heard it too.Foghat did it on "wanna make love to you"If he didnt then I think your theory of "perfect take" is right.Neil probaly just said F*$k it!

mojobone · Post by **mojobone** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:31 pm

Sounds like hot levels to tape, to my ear. When you pin the meters on those old analog decks, it gets a bit furry just before it turns crunchy, but there's a nice, natural compression there, too. It's different from the way a tube compresses. You wouldn't notice over a typical AM radio or car system of the period. The Beatles did it a lot, too.

mazz · Post by **mazz** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 3:03 pm

There's distortion on a lot of older records. I think they weren't able to hear it as clearly as we can with digital reproduction. The recording gear used on a lot (not all) of classic records wasn't anywhere near as good as the stuff available for the average laptop today!!Also, a lot of music was transferred digitally from safety masters or copies because the record companies had lost the original masters, if you can imagine that!!! Also, I've heard of one early CD that was transferred from the tape that had been run through the RIAA EQ for transfer to vinyl!!! That EQ was "encoded" on masters and "decoded" by phono preamps on the consumer end and was never intended to be heard in it's raw form!! The highs were artificially boosted and the lows attenuated, if I remember correctly, so as to make the cutting machine work better when cutting a disk. Someone had their head up their ass on that one!! I think another transfer was done a few years later, thankfully. Anyone remember what CD that was?Fun in audio-land!Mazz

ernstinen · Post by **ernstinen** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 8:50 pm

Mar 23, 2009, 5:24pm, matthoggard wrote:I think he used distortion (overdrive) on it. Ive heard it too.Foghat did it on "wanna make love to you"If he didnt then I think your theory of "perfect take" is right.Neil probaly just said F*$k it!Yea, I've noticed that on the Foghat song, too. I really don't think it's tape distortion. I've done so many analog recordings WAY in the red with the VU's pegged that sound undistorted. --- I think that it's pre-amp distortion on the mic input. But it COULD have been intentional knowing how weird Neil is!BTW, I saw Neil in one of the first concerts at the new Nokia Theatre in downtown L.A. Great venue! Fantastic sound system and sight-lines. I've said this before, but what was jaw-dropping was when Neil and the band did a 20 minute jam off of his latest CD. Somehow, he managed to find the resonant frequency of the auditorium, and went on a guitar rampage. It was so amazing, it's hard to put into words --- like he channeled Hendrix or something! Talk about distortion, but GREAT distortion! I'll never forget experiencing that.Ern

mojobone · Post by **mojobone** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 9:02 pm

Hah. It wasn't jes' one. A lot of early CD transfers were severely mishandled, it's one of the reasons digital got a bad name. Many were transferred with Dolby decoding turned off as well, or with no compensation for the fact that recording engineers of the period pre-compensated for loss of treble they knew would occur due to the vinyl stamping process. Another common error, and maybe what you're hearing on "Southern Man" is that, when master tapes were for unavailable,some reason or other, they mastered CDs from worn vinyl copies-if you have a copy of iZotope's Vinyl VST plugin, throw that on some of your pristine tracks and see how it degrades, for a laugh. To this day you get people like Mellencamp and Young dead-flat convinced digital audio can never sound good. There was also the problem with designing proper Nyquist filters, which is still tricky, but largely irrelevant at higher bit rates (48khz and up) -then there's MP3 which is claimed as 'perfect digital quality', yet so horrible I don't know how anybody manages to make 'em sound half decent-now there's a topic!

yammer107 · Post by **yammer107** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 1:27 pm

Ern it dosent surprise me at all .... just knowing Neil. He'd a left it in the mix, if it was accidental or discovered during mixdown...... Some pretty cool interviews out there with Neil...... he believes in slapping things down quick as possible while the magics happening .... and avoiding over thinking or beating any one song to death.... he dosent believe in cleaning things up muchIntresting reading the comments on CD transfers as well, certainley coulda happened there too.

ernstinen · Post by **ernstinen** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 1:41 pm

Mar 30, 2009, 4:27pm, yammer107 wrote: Ern it dosent surprise me at all .... just knowing Neil. He'd a left it in the mix, if it was accidental or discovered during mixdown...... Some pretty cool interviews out there with Neil...... he believes in slapping things down quick as possible while the magics happening .... and avoiding over thinking or beating any one song to death.... he dosent believe in cleaning things up muchIntresting reading the comments on CD transfers as well, certainley coulda happened there too. Yup, Neil is one of a kind! I still listen to "Ragged Glory," and almost every song ends in a period of feedback. I've never heard "Arc" or "Weld," but that's Neil at his most extreme."Ragged Glory" sure sounds like a band in a big room playing live. And I still think "Rust Never Sleeps" is one of the best live albums I've ever heard.Story about Neil: His roadie dropped his prized Fender amp down the stairs before they recorded the live electric version of "Hey Hey My My." The roadie was so shaken, he couldn't even tell Neil what he had done. Neil plugged into the amp, and said "WOW! THIS SOUNDS GREAT!" So he always used that amp on that song ever since ---Ern

yammer107 · Post by **yammer107** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 1:58 pm

Mar 30, 2009, 4:41pm, ernstinen wrote:[quote author=yammer107 board=nick thread=12741 post=129022 time=1238459231] Ern it dosent surprise me at all .... just knowing Neil. Story about Neil: His roadie dropped his prized Fender amp down the stairs before they recorded the live electric version of "Hey Hey My My." The roadie was so shaken, he couldn't even tell Neil what he had done. Neil plugged into the amp, and said "WOW! THIS SOUNDS GREAT!" So he always used that amp on that song ever since ---Ern Heh heh ha!

Neil's "Southern Man"

Neil's "Southern Man"

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