Newbie questions

[LOCK88]

Laurie, that's correct, normalizing will not help, if you are getting a lot of noise.

I would look at the vocal chain. Primarily mic, cable, preamp... What are you using now?

Hi Laurie, like Len said. Look at your mic, cable, and preamp to figure out where the noise is coming from. You don't want to try to clean that up later, you want to be able to record a clean vocal with as little noise as possible.

[LaurieWinn]

I've got a Shure SM 81 condenser mic (pretty old though), Innogear IG101 mic power (forgot what it is called for the moment) then Scarlett Solo interface, then into the computer. All new Lyx pro cables for all but one. I think the cable that goes from the interface to the computer. Maybe I should find a replacement for that one. I've never gotten this far before, so I thought I'd make a short 1 minute version of this song and see how it goes moving along. Took me a while to figure out how to save it as wav, aif, mp3, in Cubase (I'm still so new) and since I do a lot of video work I put mp3 to video just to see how it turns out. I'm going to keep learning to see how much I can do on my own, or how far I can get and then maybe see if someone can collaborate with me and do the audio engineering part that I am just not good at. But now that I've sort of done a quick run, I'll go back and look at all these things people have suggested. It's just the first verse and the chorus, let me know what you think. All comments are welcome, I have thick skin. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yRR5PR ... e=youtu.be Maybe I should open a box.com or sound cloud account or just put songs on Taxi artist profile. No finished songs yet though.
Thanks ....laurie

[Len911]

Laurie, I think you are fine gear-wise, and I didn't hear any excessive noise.

[RichardInUK]

[quote] ......but so much static / white noise comes along with the vocal. I thought if I set input level low I would boost later....../quote]

Hi Laurie, when you record there is aways a certain level of noise. The aim is to record at a good level so that when you mix, if you boost the levels you're not significantly boosting any hiss that is present. In the example you have posted, there is a little hiss in the background which suggests that maybe you need to be increasing your recording level - imo peak around -6dB and no clipping at all. Id be happy to help with some mixing sometime if you'd like?? When it comes to recording and mixing - we're all still learning whatever level we are at but you will get there! Regards, Richard

[fuzzbox]

Hi Laurie,
I like your voice. I listened without watching so I got a better feel for what you can do. Sounded great to me.
I too am a Cubase user. I've been using Cubase since version 4 and now on Pro 9.0

On the 1 min example, I can hear a slight hiss during your recording which may be acceptable. For me I would try and eliminate it. It sounds like you have tried the hardware. So, potentially it could be a plugin(s) gain staging. I suffered from this when I started out but my my hiss was way more than yours LOL Are you using any plugins though?

[andygabrys]

I've got a Shure SM 81 condenser mic (pretty old though), Innogear IG101 mic power (forgot what it is called for the moment) then Scarlett Solo interface, then into the computer.

What you are working with is the same as 90% of successful TAXI members.

Condenser mic, phantom power, a simple interface, and a computer recording on a DAW (you chose Cubase).

Equipment wise - you should be able to plug your SM 81 directly into the Scarlett and turn "phantom power" on the mic channel ON. You will need an XLR to XLR cable to plug into the XLR input on the left side of the from of the Scarlett.

Make sure that 48V light is lit up red - you might have to press it in to make it active. 48V = phantom power and its what makes condenser mics capture enough level to be usable.

Doing this should completely bypass the extra Innogear phantom power module - which does the same thing as the Mic channel on the Scarlett. Use less pieces of gear, and minimize the chance of having one part of the chain not work etc.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SM81
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ScarlettSoloG2

I think the material has promise, but this recording is not going to work.

The White noise / hiss / static that you mentioned before is still there. And the overall level of the recording is so low that when you turn it up to hear it, it exacerbates the level of the noise. Every system will have some inherent noise when you have to turn it way up.

You need some help setting up your basic recording gear and manipulating your input volume of your mic heading into your interface so that you optimize the signal to noise ratio.

Right now - it sounds like you have adjusted the preamp gain to a very low setting. So because every setup has an inherent level of electronic noise, you have a very low sign (voice) to noise ratio. And that shows up as hiss. Normalizing (as Len911) suggested) or compressing the vocal recording to get a more consistent performance will only bring up the level of noise in both cases.

There is a "sweet" spot on every interface for a particular kind and level of input sound. Best Signal to noise for a given level sound.

If its a really loud and dynamic sound like a snare drum and the mic is only a foot away from the drum, you will have to turn the gain knob pretty low. If its a really soft vocal "OOOOOO" sung 2 feet away from the mic you will really have to crank the gain knob up.

What you want is to get the hottest signal you can without getting any over levels - most DAW like Cubase show an over level as a RED LIGHT showing up on the input channel.

So when you are singing quietly, you will have to crank the gain up on the interface input. When you are belting like in a song chorus, you will likely need to turn the input gain down so that its not RED LIGHTS consistently on the input channel. That's totally ok - its easy to manipulate different level recordings in Cubase as long as they have good signal level and are not distorted.

The RED LIGHT is an indicator that the recorded audio will be distorted - and that will either show up as crackles or a total waterfall of crunchy sound.

Note that in this process - you are NOT manipulating the level of the fader in Cubase - that doesn't have any effect on how loud or soft the recording is being captured within Cubase, and whether you are optimizing your signal level vs. noise. The only way to do this is by manipulating the gain knob on the front of the Scarlett - the Green one.

So once you have a recorded vocal that is as loud as possible without distortion - then to get a properly mixed recording you will need to balance the volume of the backing tracks with the voice.

Look at your master output meters in Cubase - if they show RED LIGHTS - its too loud. Select all the channel faders that feed the master output, and pull them all down 1 dB. Then play it again. Keep doing that until no red lights happen during the playing of the song.

Usually on the Master Output channel there will be a level meter that shows -infinity to 0.0 dB. Digital audio distorts at 0.0 dB (RED LIGHTS)

If all your tracks are at a very low level, it might show -18 dB or something similar on your master output meter. So do the reverse of what I wrote above - start raising all the faders by 1dB until the master output meter shows maybe -3 dB. That's a good place to be as it means that you are maximizing the signal to noise - but its not distorting.

If you are really interested in recording and mixing your own stuff, you can then read about 16 bit vs 24 bit depth recording

and about eq, compression, and limiting that can be used to stabilize the level of tracks in mixing,

and in mastering, which is what Guitarkit alluded to above and is how you can make a commercially loud master out of your home recorded track.

A good reference is Youtube. Watch a few different free videos on recording, compression or mastering and you will start to get an idea what to do. Gain staging is another word for getting the level right at every successive point in the recording / mixing / mastering chain.

A great thing to do is find another producer in your area who can come over and deal with your particular setup, and in an hour or so teach you "how to fish". You don't want to have them do it all, you want them to show you how to do it. Its worth the $50-$100 it might cost to get a competent producer do that for you.

Hope that helps!

[LaurieWinn]

That is going to be so incredibly helpful! Thank you so much! Yes, it surely would be worth it to pay someone to help me set this up. Let me know if you know of anyone in the DFW area (Texas).
Part of me wants to be able to record the songs myself, and part of me wants to just record a rough demo and then send it to someone else to produce it.
The more I have been learning and working the more I've come to realize what I would really like to do is learn enough to be able to capture a good clean vocal and music recording. But not edit, mix, master, none of that.
I guess what I'd really like to do is be able to make a good clean demo. One that whoever I can get to produce it can either use my vocals or someone else's vocals (I'm not picky) my music tracks, or someone else is probably better at composing music for the song.... I'm willing to collaborate, pay for producing, or share writer's share, or both, however it's done. Kind of wish I could write, record the demo, send it to a partner, and go back to writing.
But I know I should keep trying, so I will read all the advice and keep working on learning this part of the process. Thanks so much! ....laurie

[Len911]

For run of the mill noise, just edit the vocal track. From the beginning you can fade in. If you zoom in and place a cut (snap button inactivated) on the beginning and end of vocal pauses, you can turn down each position so the noise is less or unnoticeable. Don't delete the spaces because you will notice the gaps of dead silence. Fade out in the end. You will need to use another take of a phrase if there is a pop, or static, or noise that is still noticeable. If the noise is steady and low, no one will hear it, they will think you have a tube mic,lol!

You can use a noise gate/expander in your vocal chain, I use one when either the furnace or a/c is in use, though it really isn't necessary. It can be a pain to setup correctly.

You can also use a compressor. Then you can crank the volume, scream or whisper, and not worry about going over depending on how you set the threshold. So if you are setting the gain low on the preamp for fear of going over, maybe a compressor might be worthwhile??

So to recap, don't worry about the noise unless it is louder than the vocal, just edit the vocal track, and use a compressor in your vocal chain if you want to crank up the volume on the preamp and are afraid of going over and distortion. A compressor isn't a set and forget unless you sing the same level each time.

[Len911]

I've come to realize what I would really like to do is learn enough to be able to capture a good clean vocal and music recording. But not edit, mix, master, none of that.

If you are just starting it can be overwhelming, don't try to memorize it all, just go a step at a time and only learn the task you need to do right now. I still reference my manual all the time for things I don't do often and need a refresher. Most items in a daw are not there because you use them often, they are available so if you ever need or want them, they're there. Don't let it intimidate you! You will need basic editing, mixing and mastering to capture a good clean vocal and music recording, you just don't particularly want all the small polishing details, and that's understandable.

If you have any questions, there is always someone here to steer you in the right direction. We don't always have the same opinions!

Once you get everything setup, you might want to learn about composite vocals, so you can record several tracks, then cut and paste the best "takes" together. Maybe add some effects like reverb and delay. The single most important thing is probably gain. If you master gain you master probably 90% of recording.

[LaurieWinn]

It all is a bit overwhelming however I'm determined.
AND I found out what my main problem was. Even though my mic was working, it wasn't working correctly.
I switched it to a cheap thrift store mic and it is sounding so much better!! I probably will have to get a better mic, I'm thinking Shure 58, but until then I'm enjoying using the cheap but effective mic.
Thanks everyone!!!!