No Forward...I'm a little bummed

[Casey H]

ToncartIf your songs are excellent except for the lyrics, why not collaborate with someone whose strength is lyrics?Also, as others suggested, don't forget film/TV and music libraries, with or without TAXI, as outlets.I think very few of us will ever be willing, able, and capable enough to do what it takes to go from writing very good songs to undeniably great ones. Pitching for Nashville artists, unfortunately, is the hardest thing you could take on. For about $100 a year, you can join NSAI (Nashville Songwriters Association) and get 1 critique a month. And, trust me, if you think TAXI screeners are tough on you, they are nothing compared to these folks who review to Nashville standards. Anyway, all the best... Casey

[Casey H]

ToncartIf your songs are excellent except for the lyrics, why not collaborate with someone whose strength is lyrics?Also, as others suggested, don't forget film/TV and music libraries, with or without TAXI, as outlets.I think very few of us will ever be willing, able, and capable enough to do what it takes to go from writing very good songs to undeniably great ones. Pitching for Nashville artists, unfortunately, is the hardest thing you could take on. For about $100 a year, you can join NSAI (Nashville Songwriters Association) and get 1 critique a month. And, trust me, if you think TAXI screeners are tough on you, they are nothing compared to these folks who review to Nashville standards. They gave me a massive does of reality when I started out. I thought my songs were great!! That's what made me focus on film/TV and smaller opportunities that were more of a match for my talent level. (I think I am good to very good, but not great).I listened and read the lyrics to This Ring. Please don't take this as me ripping you personally to shreds... My songs get ripped in reviews all the time including reviews by successful members of this forum... Although, I am not much of a country music person, the song did not seem like hit material at all to me. As others noted, the lyrics and rhymes are too cliche. A&R hate moon/June, love/above type overused rhymes. You need to use imagery. There are books on songwriting that could help you a lot there. "Show me, don't tell me" is the motto... Also, the song is not chorus driven. When A&R are listening for a hit, they want a killer chorus that sticks in your head like glue. If they don't hear that within 60 seconds, you are done. Step back, take a deep breath, and think about your next steps, with or without TAXI. Anyway, all the best... Casey

[pogodog]

Aub Delane , just wanted to say i enjoyed reading your response, and i sit humbled and wiser... I will no longer believe, as It's not always the case, that those who can't do, teach Math

[aubreyz]

Quote:Don't even assume that you know my character. You throwing that word out there let's me know more about yours though. I wouldn't have had to post what you said if your "posse" hadn't chimed in supporting all of your positive wisdom. I just didn't recieve the same in your message to me that's all. Those were your words that I posted and I thought it could have been more tactful, especially to a discouraged newbie. I said that it was taken out of context and that I only "heard" the negative. You did give me some advice in there that was practical but I missed it the first time I read it because of the two black eyes you gave me made it hard to see. Hurowitz gave some great advice recently and I respect that he didn't beat me up to get a point across. Well--- part of my character is that I can be very blunt. I say what I think and mean what I say. I also make mistakes. Like saying I was done with this topic. I just can’t resist a good debate. I’m in the middle of some very tedious non musical busyness of running a studio, and welcome a little break to post right now.First of all, maybe we should start over. I’m blunt – you’re sensitive. Neither are right are wrong, that’s just the way it is. I will try to be more tactful, and hope you accept my apologies for offending you.Think about this. What in the world kind of self-serving purpose would it serve for me to send a private message to you? The wording I used may have been unclear, but my intent was based solely on one factor – your potential. From your few posts, it was apparent that you didn’t have a real grasp on what it takes for success in this industry, and had unrealistic expectations. I took the time to listen to your songs and read your lyrics. As I recall, I decided to send you a private message because I thought you might misinterpret the comments as grandstanding if they were made in public. I was also busy at the time and wanted to be concise and frank.Bottom line, my opinion was that you had some great ideas but needed a kick in the pants to get real about how this whole thing works. And my opinion was honest. I get very frustrated by these “song mill” demo houses that will take anybody’s money and spit out a demo without letting the person know the song is not ready for market, or that they have little or no artist potential. It’s not worth my time to post or message someone that I think has no potential. What would be the point? I have plenty of ego in place and don’t need to nurture it by tearing someone else down.Had you walked in my studio, I would have told you the same thing. “I’ll record these and take your money, but the songs aren’t ready to compete yet”. I’ve lost some business over the years because I don’t pat people on the back to make a buck. You posted asking for feedback. I gave you the best I had to offer. Free advice is often worth the price you pay. I’ll be happy to give you a refund.

[davewalton]

Quote:I wouldn't have had to post what you said if your "posse" hadn't chimed in supporting all of your positive wisdom. I just didn't recieve the same in your message to me that's all. Sorry T, but Aub is 100% right on this. If he posted a PRIVATE message to you, then any response should have been in the form of a PRIVATE message back to him, not a PUBLIC message to the rest of us about his PRIVATE comments to you. People, including me, will be more than a little gun-shy in responding to your posts if we think that anything we say in private can and will be used against us in public.

[andreh]

Quote:Aub, <snip> I only posted your comments because I was getting the feeling that you were a little more tactful to others when offering advice.If I were to post some of the honest criticism Aub has sent me in private messages, you'd know that he ALWAYS speaks his mind! Swallow hard and use it to your advantage...his advice, as well as that of many others on this forum, has helped me move forward in my writing when I let it.Andre

[aubreyz]

Quote:Quote:Aub, <snip> I only posted your comments because I was getting the feeling that you were a little more tactful to others when offering advice.If I were to post some of the honest criticism Aub has sent me in private messages, you'd know that he ALWAYS speaks his mind! Swallow hard and use it to your advantage...his advice, as well as that of many others on this forum, has helped me move forward in my writing when I let it.AndreThis whole blunt vs. polite thing reminds me of a Yankee friend of mine who moved down south and experienced culture shock. I'm quite the diplomat compared to his bluntness, and he was offending people right and left. He made one of the truest points I’ve ever heard. “People in the South smile and are friendly but never tell you what they really think. They lie to one another and that’s called polite. I say what I honestly think and that’s called rude.”True dat.I must say here, as we’re having a round on toncart, that Andre’s feedback has been very valuable to me as well. Though more tactful than I, he’ll tell me what he thinks too, and I have grown to respect his opinion. A quick case in point that I’m harder on myself than I am on anybody else, here’s a snippet of an email I sent Andre in regards to a vocal I had just cut:So I get home... listen to blind side --- and start laughing. The first verse vocal really sucks. A real, what was I thinking moment....To the best of my ever escaping memory, I don’t think I’ve ever told anyone else they sucked!

[davewalton]

Quote:Virtual round of beer for everyone. It's on me!!!! : )

[matto]

Quote:Virtual round of beer for everyone. It's on me!!!! : )For those of you who can make it to the Rally, I'll buy you a real one...I actually welcome blunt criticism, as long as it's given by someone I know means well and doesn't do it to hurt or tear down.I think the problem with online forums is it takes a long time to really "get to know" people...real beers make quick work of that At the same time I certainly understand how it feels to face rejection and criticism. I may come on here and say "learn to live with it, it's part of the business"(which is a fact), but that doesn't mean it still doesn't hurt when one of my songs gets rejected or passed over...I don't think that ever goes away.Unless you're a masochist who enjoys this kind of treatment...