ORIGINAL SOUTH AFRICAN FOLK INSTRUMENTALS

[kavode]

I submitted Mbaqanga Stomp to the "ORIGINAL SOUTH AFRICAN FOLK INSTRUMENTALS" TAXI #Y090713WO. This was a collaboration between me and South African guitarist Llew Pearce, who toured throughout the world playing South African music with other South Africans. We discussed at length what "Authentic South African Folk" could mean, and we landed on the kind of instrumental folky-funk you hear on every street corner on Johannesburg. You can imagine my surprise when this piece was not forwarded because "The track could sound more authentic in terms of performance & harmonic aspect." Naturally, this was a YES/NO listing, so all I got was that one sentence explanation.I have had forwards and returns before, and received a ton of constructive criticism and advice which I have applied, so please don't think this is just the rant of a complete newbie. My guess is the music publisher posting the listing didn't actually want any instrumentals at all.The tip-off comes right from the listing: "ORIGINAL SOUTH AFRICAN FOLK INSTRUMENTALS a la Youssou N'Dour" (who is a singer from Senegal), "Miriam Makeba" (who is a singer from South Africa), and Ladysmith Black Mambazo (an acapella group from South Africa). I understand that there is some deduction left to me to determine what would be the most appropriate track for a given listing, but for the music publisher/TAXI to ask for instrumentals but really expect vocals is asinine and a waste of my time and money. I am assuming this is what happened, because I cannot wrap my head around the other possibility, that:1) A listing for authentic South African folk instrumentals to which I2) Submitted an authentic South African folk instrumental co-written by an authentic South African musician and 3) It gets returned because it wasn’t authentic.Go ahead, tell me my production wasn’t up to par.Tell me I suck as a bassist.Even tell me the piece wasn’t appropriate for the listing.But to tell me that a South African musician who has made his living playing South African music didn’t submit an authentic South African folk song doesn't really ring true to me.To say Mbaqanga Stomp isn’t authentically South African is to say that: 1) The music publisher has little grasp of Authentic South African music 2) The Screener (#53) has little grasp of Authentic South African music3) The music publisher and/or The Screener (#53) don't understand the difference between vocal and instrumental music, which I really hope is not the case.I feel I have given TAXI many benefits of many doubts, but this is ridiculous. If the music publisher wanted South African vocal music, the listing should have asked for it.If the music publisher wanted Psuedo-South African folk, ala Dave Matthews Band, the listing should have asked for it.I'd love to get feedback of any kind on this piece, because I feel that the listing asked for authentic South African Folk Instrumentals, and I delivered a well-produced, appropriate-for-the-listing South African Folk Instrumental track, and it was returned, and I don't understand why. Please help me renew my faith in TAXI!Jeremy Birdsallwww.jeremybirdsall.com/MUSIC.htmlMbaqanga Stomp is the first track.

[didger]

Yep, that's a messed up listing. Even if you look at Youssou N'Dour's albums instrumentally, I'd never describe it as folk, but... well, afro-pop, which to me means a mix of African folk, jazz and light rock and pop elements. And obviously... it's a long way from South Africa to Senegal. Then to use Ladysmith as an example for an instrumental listing is just plain wrong. The cynical interpretation is that those are just the only three African artists the client could name.Now, if I ignore everything about the listing except "ORIGINAL SOUTH AFRICAN FOLK INSTRUMENTALS" I can understand the screener's comments. My first impression from just that title would be something a bit more rootsy, a bit less clean and poppy than what you've got there. Again, to me, that'd be the difference between "folk" and "afropop" or whatever people are calling it these days. And I think the rhodes part might be what's getting the comment about the harmonic aspect. That sort of jazzes it up a bit.But again, listen to some of Youssou N'Dour's albums, and that's what you'll hear. So you've definitely got a legitimate complaint, in my opinion. But I would say that in the future, if a listing contradicts itself, it's worth clarifying with Taxi first. I've done that once before and got a very quick response that cleared it up. You've got to read the listings very carefully as they'll sometimes return for the slightest derivation from it. If the listing's confused from the start, you're just gambling with your five bucks.

[crs7string]

Jeremy,I listened to your track and I like it.However, the "folk" part of the listing I don't think is addressed.When I think of "folk" music, I immediately think acoustic instruments.I am not an expert on African Folk Music. I do know when a listing like this comes up I routinely do research on what the listing is asking for. If there is a listing for "traditional" gamelan music, I listen to traditional gamelan music. I don't try to find hip hop gamelan music or electronica gamelan music, because that is not what the listing party is looking for.A couple of years ago I went thru the same sort of thing your are going thru with a calliope listing (yeah, these come up on occasion) I put together a track of what I thought a calliope would sound like and it was returned. I griped about it on the Forum.I got input from folks here and shortly after an another calliope listing showed up. This time I did the research, wrote a new track and it was forwarded by the screener. The research made the difference.Unfortunately, with the new one or two lines in a Y/N listing, we can be on occasion side tracked from the real issue of does the track fit the listing. The comments that the screeners make are not necessarily addressing that head on.The fact that you have a real South African musician on the track does not automatically make it a shoe in. If a listing for authentic "acoustic blues" came up and I drove to Memphis to find a "real" blues musician on Beale Street to play guitar and he played a screaming solo on his Stratocaster, it matters not that he was the real deal. I did not fulfill the listing requirements.This track may fit a future listing better and you now have a track to submit.Forwards and returns are never going to change in this process. The sooner one gets immune to the returns the better. I have also found that owners of production music libraries do not like working with composers who are so "married to their music" that they will not make any changes or accept input. Why should they bother working with someone who is not flexible when there are enough composers who are open to criticism and don't take it personally.So get over it and go back to work on some tracks for the current listings. Chuck

[kavode]

I think you nailed, Randin. Listen to Youssou N'Dour. It's afropop, not folk, yet it's the first example the music publisher lists. I've found a couple of tracks that were forwarded on this listing, and it appears that afropop is exactly what they were looking for, not folk. I think our track fits, and really my gripe is not that it wasn't forwarded, just the reason the screener gave. Chuck, I've had many returns in the past, and I understand that my track could just not fit what they're looking for. I just feel that I gave them what I thought they were looking for, and apparantly I guessed wrong, and I'm just trying to improve my "is-this-the-right-vibe-for-the-listing deductive ability" while I continue to improve my songwriting, playing and production techniques!And I definitely will speak with someone at TAXI to clarify before submitting to any murky listings in the future.Thanks for the advice!

[didger]

Hey Chuck, that's all true in most cases, but the listing does have to make sense to begin with. I don't know for a fact this is true in this case, but as someone who's worked extensively with world music, the listing reminds me of many times where clients don't really know what they're asking for. Maybe they know they need something African but don't know much about African music, so they're taking a shot in the dark with the a la's in the listing. Your comments follow exactly what I said - you're taking your view of what the music should be like from the word "folk" but if you research the a la's, you'll find there's very little of that kind of "folk" about them. And again - this instrumental listing referenced an a capella group which just happens to be the most famous African musical artist from the last 20 years. I'd guess the client doesn't know much more about African music. So to have people blindly submit isn't quite fair, but... for me personally, that's why I didn't bother with the listing. If they can't tell me what they want, I'm not going to take a stab in the dark at making them happy. At least not if I have to pay to take that stab. If I'm getting paid up front to take a stab, that's a different story! ;-)Reminds me of the story of the film composer... I wish I could remember who... who was told by the director very confidently, "I want a clarinet solo here." So the composer went off and wrote it. On the scoring stage, the director said, "wait wait wait, what the hell is this?" "Umm... the clarinet solo?""That's not a clarinet! That's not what I was looking for!"So in the moment the composer tried several things, putting it in a different register, giving it to bass clarinet, rewriting it, never pleasing the director. Finally he said, "let's try something different" and gave the line to the oboe.The director says, "that's what I'm talking about! THAT'S the clarinet!"That's western music, but it gets even worse with world music. I can say this as someone who's been brought from San Diego to LA for a session with a didjeridu and asked to play soul horn lines.So I think the moral here is not the normal Taxi lesson about learning to accept criticism and write for the client, but rather to make sure the listing is clear before investing time and money into it.

[kavode]

Exactly! Now, who do I talk at TAXI to get clarification on listings?

[crs7string]

The listing party is a prominent LA library with whom I have signed some world music tracks. Usually, they are very clear in their descriptions.I have not checked out the ala's on this listing (other than knowing Ladysmith Black Mambazo's sound) There are instrumental listings fairly regularly that reference vocalists. The listing party may ask for instrumentals in the style of Jason Mraz for instance. There is an art to "reading the listing" and the contradiction of the "folk" reference and the ala's certainly seems one that should come to TAXI's attention.Unfortunately, the art of reading the listing is a course in the school of hard knocks. Returns and forwards are the course work.I haven't done this in a while , but as others would post their forward success, I would post my track(s) that were returned. This idea may fall in the category of learning from others mistakes.Jeremy should probably call and talk to Robin Frederick. I have done this in the past. It does not necessarily change any outcome on this listing but every little bit we can do as members to minimize confusion is a good thing.Some other forum members have done this before submitting to help clear up some confusion. Or, as didger has mentioned, just avoid the listing all together.Chuck

[kavode]

Thanks for the lead, Chuck!

[markjsmith]

Ah the infamous read between the lines listing! I submitted 3 and got 1 through. I don't think it was because it was "traditional" at all, but because the guitars had an afropop flavor (the groove was more of a Martinique type sound). When it comes to most world music most people (including a lot of musicians whom I respect) have differing opinions and many times no clue as to what is traditional in a lot of regions. That being said you probably have a great track for the next listing that comes along!-Mark

[markjsmith]

BTW I have called TAXI a few times to get clarification, it was a crapshoot on how helpful ( once VERY helpful twice not so much).