Please Help Me Understand This Critique

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Please Help Me Understand This Critique

Post by funkyguitar » Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:12 pm

I'm having trouble understanding how to apply the feedback I received for a recent submission I made for a listing.

Listing S210108FT: MINIMALISTIC '50's-Style INSTRUMENTAL CUES in ALL GENRES
https://www.taxi.com/listings/S210108FT
"Please submit well-crafted '50's-style Instrumental Cues that are sparse, simple, and minimalistic. Craft your submissions around a singular motif and mood, and add and subtract layers of instrumentation to create a little dynamic variation and some forward momentum."

Here's the link to the recording: https://soundcloud.com/lancevallis/1950s-taxi

The critique says - I think you could improve this song by:
Consider the overall sound of the mix. Try an alt-mix and tame the dynamics and balance the instrumentation so nothing jumps out and there is a cohesive balance throughout. Also, introducing strategic edit points can help this get closer to the desired structure and sound.


1. The only thing I can think of is at 1:04 the volume jumps up a bit. Since it's the end of the song I figure some direction with the song getting louder towards the end makes sense. There isn't a specific spot described in the critique so I'm left to guess.
2. What are edit points?

Performance
There are tuning, rhythm, or dissonance issues
    What are they? Why not be specific about what the issue is?

    I returned or forwarded this song because
    The track has a good period feel, although, it could benefit from a revision in the mix/structure to meet the listing's criteria.
    What criteria in the listing is being addressed here? The listing says "Please submit well-crafted '50's-style Instrumental Cues that are sparse, simple, and minimalistic. Craft your submissions around a singular motif and mood, and add and subtract layers of instrumentation to create a little dynamic variation and some forward momentum." None of these descriptors is mentioned in the critique.

    I've received a few critiques from previous submissions that I understood where they were coming from but this one is not clear to me. Would appreciate any insight you have to offer.

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    Re: Please Help Me Understand This Critique

    Post by BradGray » Tue Jan 26, 2021 4:35 am

    Hey Funkyguitar,

    You have a nice track there with some good 50s style and vibe; nicely done!

    What I hear is not rhythm issues, but more timing issues. When that high keyboard comes in keyboard comes in at the intro, and other parts, it feels a little out of time to the other instruments. Most when it comes back in around the 1 minute mark. Not sure what DAW you're using to record with, but usually timing issues like that can be tweaked a bit without needing to redo parts. The modern age! =)

    Edit points, in as much as I understand them, are natural breaks in sections that allow whoever will be the user of the music, to easily go in an pick a section of the cue for their use. For yours, the only two edit points that really stand out would be that turn around phrase at the intro, and one more towards the end. The middle section does not really have easy spots to jump in and take sections of.

    With regards to the mix, I liked the sound of yours actually (I submitted for this one, but my 50s mix was not a good mix; so rejected). I'm not sure what they were trying to say, other than the keyboard is noticeably louder than the other instruments; when it comes in on those higher chord shots; high frequencies will seem louder with volume as well. When it goes into the low chords (pad) it blends in.

    Hope that helps,
    Brad

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    Re: Please Help Me Understand This Critique

    Post by Robertj64 » Tue Jan 26, 2021 6:28 am

    Wow that screener is quite obscure. I listened to the track and the mix needs a bit of work. The opening organ needs to be tamed a little in volume and it needs to be quanitized. I am very surprised that the screener could not point this out. Even when the organ goes into the chords later, it overwhelms the guitar. Its loudness is a little harsh on the left ear.

    I hope you will get to edit as it is a nice feel. Bring up the guitar more in the mix as it has the 50's feel! What about some nice soft high strings in the background. Could work.

    Cheers!

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    Re: Please Help Me Understand This Critique

    Post by cosmicdolphin » Tue Jan 26, 2021 8:16 am

    funkyguitar wrote:
    Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:12 pm
    There are tuning, rhythm, or dissonance issues
      What are they? Why not be specific about what the issue is?
      I got 4 seconds in and could hear timing issues...the stabby organ part seems to be the culprit as I think the bass and the guitar are okay

      Something sounds off harmonically on that little run down you have as well at 6s & 16s ...not sure whether it's a tuning issue or an inversion that sounds dissonant

      Between 15-20s the organ notes and the guitar and the drums are all off with each other timing wise

      @32s the Hats sound like the timing is off

      @40s not sure if that works harmonically either

      I could go on but it's pretty much the same culprits as the track goes continues
      funkyguitar wrote:
      Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:12 pm
      Consider the overall sound of the mix. Try an alt-mix and tame the dynamics and balance the instrumentation so nothing jumps out and there is a cohesive balance throughout. Also, introducing strategic edit points can help this get closer to the desired structure and sound.


      The only thing I can think of is at 1:04 the volume jumps up a bit.
      The organ part is very staccato/ percussive and it jumps out the mix in a way that's not nice to listen to . You could either try lowering the velocities to soften it, or limit/ compress it to control it or use a transient plugin if you have one set to a negative value to dial it back.

      The hats are also too loud and forward sounding ..50s recordings were usually recorded in one take as they had no multitracks so the mix balance was set by how far away the instrument was from the mic. The drummer would usually be somewhere at the back being the loudest instrument so things like high hats would not sound like that, it would be a softer more roomy sound.

      Mark

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      Re: Please Help Me Understand This Critique

      Post by tresero » Wed Jan 27, 2021 7:15 pm

      cosmicdolphin wrote:
      Tue Jan 26, 2021 8:16 am
      funkyguitar wrote:
      Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:12 pm
      There are tuning, rhythm, or dissonance issues
        What are they? Why not be specific about what the issue is?
        I got 4 seconds in and could hear timing issues...the stabby organ part seems to be the culprit as I think the bass and the guitar are okay

        Something sounds off harmonically on that little run down you have as well at 6s & 16s ...not sure whether it's a tuning issue or an inversion that sounds dissonant

        Between 15-20s the organ notes and the guitar and the drums are all off with each other timing wise

        @32s the Hats sound like the timing is off

        @40s not sure if that works harmonically either

        I could go on but it's pretty much the same culprits as the track goes continues
        funkyguitar wrote:
        Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:12 pm
        Consider the overall sound of the mix. Try an alt-mix and tame the dynamics and balance the instrumentation so nothing jumps out and there is a cohesive balance throughout. Also, introducing strategic edit points can help this get closer to the desired structure and sound.


        The only thing I can think of is at 1:04 the volume jumps up a bit.
        The organ part is very staccato/ percussive and it jumps out the mix in a way that's not nice to listen to . You could either try lowering the velocities to soften it, or limit/ compress it to control it or use a transient plugin if you have one set to a negative value to dial it back.

        The hats are also too loud and forward sounding ..50s recordings were usually recorded in one take as they had no multitracks so the mix balance was set by how far away the instrument was from the mic. The drummer would usually be somewhere at the back being the loudest instrument so things like high hats would not sound like that, it would be a softer more roomy sound.

        Mark
        I agree. The timing is off and as mentioned it was a whole band playing together in one take and usually one mic overhead. The 1 6 2 5 is okay, but the feel just isn't correct. Sorry :(

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        Re: Please Help Me Understand This Critique

        Post by funkyguitar » Thu Jan 28, 2021 5:09 pm

        Thank you everyone for the detailed feedback, very helpful, you've given me specific areas to focus on to improve it. I felt the screener's feedback left much to be desired, it seemed to say "fix the mix" without detail about what needs fixing, which I thought was the point of screener feedback.

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        Re: Please Help Me Understand This Critique

        Post by AlanHall » Thu Jan 28, 2021 5:54 pm

        Others will correct me if I'm out of line, but screening for a listing does not allow the screeners time to do a 'full critique' for every submission they get. Nor is that the point of the screening. It's to benefit the client (library or supe). That makes this forum right here so valuable. It's for us!

        If you feel that your submission is at the level where an in-depth critique is valuable to you, then for $20 you can have that personalized attention. A custom critique can be useful before, after, or independently from a submission to a listing. Me, I got a custom critique after my very first return. It was like a mentoring session, but without the nametags. ;)

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        Re: Please Help Me Understand This Critique

        Post by BradGray » Thu Jan 28, 2021 8:43 pm

        AlanHall wrote:
        Thu Jan 28, 2021 5:54 pm
        Others will correct me if I'm out of line, but screening for a listing does not allow the screeners time to do a 'full critique' for every submission they get. Nor is that the point of the screening. It's to benefit the client (library or supe). That makes this forum right here so valuable. It's for us!

        If you feel that your submission is at the level where an in-depth critique is valuable to you, then for $20 you can have that personalized attention. A custom critique can be useful before, after, or independently from a submission to a listing. Me, I got a custom critique after my very first return. It was like a mentoring session, but without the nametags. ;)
        Personally, I think it's a bit of balance, but I appreciate what you're saying. How in-depth are the $20 reviews Alan? I've never tried that before, as the basic ones, for the most part, have been helpful (when paired up with forum feedback).

        Cheers,
        Brad

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        Re: Please Help Me Understand This Critique

        Post by AlanHall » Fri Jan 29, 2021 8:09 am

        BradGray wrote:
        Thu Jan 28, 2021 8:43 pm
        AlanHall wrote:
        Thu Jan 28, 2021 5:54 pm
        Others will correct me if I'm out of line, but screening for a listing does not allow the screeners time to do a 'full critique' for every submission they get. Nor is that the point of the screening. It's to benefit the client (library or supe). That makes this forum right here so valuable. It's for us!

        If you feel that your submission is at the level where an in-depth critique is valuable to you, then for $20 you can have that personalized attention. A custom critique can be useful before, after, or independently from a submission to a listing. Me, I got a custom critique after my very first return. It was like a mentoring session, but without the nametags. ;)
        Personally, I think it's a bit of balance, but I appreciate what you're saying. How in-depth are the $20 reviews Alan? I've never tried that before, as the basic ones, for the most part, have been helpful (when paired up with forum feedback).

        Cheers,
        Brad
        The custom critique is at least 4x more effective than the submission feedback :lol:

        For the one time I got a custom critique, the reviewer let their hair down a little and shared some insight as well as specific critique items. It was a teachable moment for me; depending on where the Taxi 'passenger' is on their journey, the feedback may be more or less valuable. I guess that's the literal meaning of the phrase YMMV :shock:

        Overall, the forum feedback may be just as good, provided the 'circle of trust' is healthy.

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        Re: Please Help Me Understand This Critique

        Post by Cameloide » Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:10 am

        funkyguitar wrote:
        Thu Jan 28, 2021 5:09 pm
        I felt the screener's feedback left much to be desired, it seemed to say "fix the mix" without detail about what needs fixing, which I thought was the point of screener feedback.
        I agree with that. In this case, "fixing the mix" would do nothing to fix the core issues which are the rhythmic/timing issues people have been pointing out. Chris Lord-Alge could mix it and it wouldn't make it any more syncable than your mix, because until the timing issues are addressed and everything is in the pocket and the song is grooving no agency or supervisor would ever use it for sync. So until you get that worked out the mix is really irrelevant.

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