Mixing Insight

[ernstinen]

May 8, 2008, 10:02pm, milfus wrote:Gotta disagree on the schooling, I have done both, been mentored and I am still in classes, and it really all comes down to the teacher, I have had like production teachers, that had done many grammy mixes, and they would just drop a comment as an aside note, on something totally unrelated to producing even, that would just drop your jaw.Yea, I can see how a good teacher can make a big difference, like at any school. He/she can really inspire, or deflate you depending on the person! Here's my point about investing in your own studio vs. going to a recording arts school: A lot of those schools are a for-profit business. Even the ones that aren't are VERY expensive if you go for a long period of time.I've got a friend whose son just got admitted to Berklee College of Music in Boston, which is a very well-respected school. He's a great percussionist, and got a $9000 a year scholarship. I'm so happy for them! That will help with the tuition. But let's say you're going there for recording engineering. Ya know how much tuition and room & board is at Berklee? over $40,000 a year! Multiply that by 4 years, plus travel expenses coming back and forth for the holidays, beer etc., and you're approaching $200,000! Now, that kind of money would buy you an incredible recording studio, with money left over to HIRE someone at minimum wage from Full Sail etc. to do the technical stuff. Quote:pushing that mono button, and actually turning one of the speakers off, 1 speaker, mono signal, itll help, trust me (same with eq and most other dynamics)Aha! Now here's a great tip that I'll take a step further. The Mono button is your friend in more ways than one. It will help you find out if there are things in your mix that are "out of phase." If you've messed up something in your stereo program and push the mono button, your whole mix collapses!For instance, I was up at the family cabin a few years ago in N. Minnesota, and was enjoying the eclectic programming of FM station WELY. The signal was weak one day, so I pushed the mono button on the receiver. EVERYTHING that was panned center in the stereo mix (lead vocal, kick drum, bass guitar, snare etc.) VANISHED! Gone. I knew exactly what it was. One of their two broadcast circuits was "out of phase." You'd hear a song that would sound fine, and then they would switch over to their second playback system, and all you would hear was secondary parts and reverb! Ah, the northwoods --- I love it up there!I actually called the radio station and asked for their engineer. They said he was on vacation. I told them about the problem, and they didn't know what I was talking about. Sheesh! Moral of the story --- Go Mono! Ern

[devin]

May 9, 2008, 7:02am, ernstinen wrote: beer etc.Ern, that beer tab was going to show up whether you're in school or not ....no fair blaming the education system for my love of beer (that's what my day job is for) .On the "formal schooling thing", it can be a pain to be limited to someone else's version of what they think you should know.But on the flip side, with a good teacher, it can save alot of time. Plus it has lots to do with student too. Some folks can attend a formal school and really soak it up...others prefer to be the mad scientist in the basement re-discovering it all for themselves. (I'm closer to the basement type).For me, I like trying it myself first, then reaching out to fill in the gaps. I retain ALOT more when I finally find out "so THAT'S why it sounds like crap!" after making some attempts myself. I think alot of us are in this same situation...sounds like Glenn is too. Doing the best we can with what we've got, and reading up when it's time for a new trick.Now that Glenn knows 50% of my mixing tips, it's time to bombard him with my send & last tip: get used to your monitors. I've been told (right here on the boards!) to play my commercial reference material before, and even during, a mixing session. For example, if I really like the guitar sound from James Taylor's "Fire and Rain" (does anyone not like that tone?)...I'll play that when setting up mics or when mixing. Nothing wrong with trying to dial that in. By alternating between the reference track and what I'm recording or mixing, it can give me feedback on mic placement, compression, eq, reverb, etc, etc. Someday I'll get it!

[ernstinen]

May 9, 2008, 10:06am, lyle wrote:Where can I buy a good mono button?Here's a USB version that you push if your mix sounds like crap:Ern

[ernstinen]

May 9, 2008, 9:10am, devin wrote:Some folks can attend a formal school and really soak it up...others prefer to be the mad scientist in the basement re-discovering it all for themselves. (I'm closer to the basement type).Ya know, The Beatles were more the "mad scientist" types themselves. They viewed recording as an art. But the engineers at EMI actually WERE scientists! They were so trained and indoctrinated in electrical engineering, they LITERALLY wore white lab jackets in the studio. Seriously! There was ONE way to record, and if they didn't follow the scientific protocol, they got written up and chastised. --- So the Beatles didn't buy the restrictions. They would say "What would it sound like if you cranked the treble on the guitar track all the way up?" The engineers would reply "No, we can't do that. It's not done that way." Beatles: "Why not? Just TRY it!" And the fight would go on and on until the Beatles had some leverage to FORCE some changes.Another thing they fought over was the depth of the bass in the mix. They'd say "We DEMAND to know why the bass on the Motown records sounds so much better and louder than on OUR records." The engineers would give the rote answer that the stylus would jump out of the vinyl grooves. "Then why doesn't it jump out of the Motown records' grooves, huh?" "Uh, well, we were trained not to do it like that."Then Paul switched to a Rickenbacker bass, and they came up with the idea of using a 15" bass speaker as a microphone, rewiring it, and miking the bass cabinet with it. Voila! Deep, rich bass.So, IMHO, the FUN of the art of recording is in the experimenting. You can't get that out of a book.Ern

[davekershaw]

May 9, 2008, 10:36am, ernstinen wrote:So, IMHO, the FUN of the art of recording is in the experimenting. You can't get that out of a book.Ern Yes Ern, wouldn't it have been great to sit in on a Beatles recording session, especially around '66 - '69.No-one could believe what they were doing.I heard David Crosby the other night saying they would bring something like Paperback Writer out, and he just felt like giving in!A funny thing I remember hearing was that during the recording of "I Want You (she's so heavy)", at the point where John Lennon really lets rip and screams, you can hear voices right after the scream. Someone's theory was that Lennon's voice had gone way into the red, and the voice was an engineer complaining! Can you imagine anyone doing that to John Lennon!!

[allends]

May 9, 2008, 10:16am, ernstinen wrote:Here's a USB version that you push if your mix sounds like crap:Ern,You're simply the BEST with these goofy pictures! Thanks,Allen

[ernstinen]

May 9, 2008, 11:13am, davekershaw wrote:I heard David Crosby the other night saying they would bring something like Paperback Writer out, and he just felt like giving in!Ha! "Paperback Writer" was the FIRST song that they recorded after their tirade about the bass sound. I believe that's also the first song Paul used a Rick bass on, too.BTW, if you're a David Crosby fan, check out his first solo record called "If I Could Only Remember My Name." It's fantastic! Lots of his West Coast buddies play on it, but it's pure Crosby with his great vocals. --- The bass sound on that recording is really cool. I think it was the Airplane's bass player --- can't think of his name offhand. Lots of "thunk" so the notes stand out, but lots of bottom end, too. Maybe an Alembic or some hi-end bass those guys were starting to use back then.Ern

[Mark Kaufman]

Mixing is really maddening....quite the art. As I take in all this good advice, it strikes me interesting that for all the money spent on excellent, state of the art monitors, it still comes down to how it sounds in the other room, or through crappy speakers, or through a boombox.One producer I know loves to mix with a combo of Yamaha NS-10s and AKG141 phones. He says they produce a very flat, dull response...but when you get your mix sounding good through them, they sound amazing everywhere else. He says he came to this process after listening to many fabulous mixes in recording studios with sparkling sounds through world-class speakers...only to find they sounded like doodoo in his car.

[liamkelly]

May 9, 2008, 1:01pm, lyle wrote:Mixing is really maddening....quite the art. As I take in all this good advice, it strikes me interesting that for all the money spent on excellent, state of the art monitors, it still comes down to how it sounds in the other room, or through crappy speakers, or through a boombox.

[liamkelly]

May 9, 2008, 1:14pm, lyle wrote:May 9, 2008, 1:06pm, devin wrote:Mark, I've got an extra one here you can have. I ordered mine from Music 123, but they are only sold in pairs. What's your address?Pairs, eh? Can't fool me--those are Stereo Buttons. Nice try, pal.ROTFLMAO Very good, Mark.