In pursuit of reality.

[jeffe]

Here goes. Hopefully this thread can serve a purpose for those who make their music electronically. I'm after some tips too "In pursuit of reality".Well, there ain't nothing like the real thing, but if you do not have that then you have to try and get as close to reality as possible, using your PC etc.I'm going to start off with Drums in software.I've considered that drummers generally tend to use the two arms they have + one foot (Just in case someone points it out. I'm excluding the drummer from Def Leppard). Ok, some use two feet but I'm going on the one foot rule.With this in mind, I try to make sure that I never have any more that three elements of percussion hitting simultaneously.The other point is velocity. Even if drummers try to hit with the same velocity, there is a subtle difference between the hits. With this in mind I make small random changes to the velocities, after I have laid it out.It's not real but it gets a lot closer for me.Anybody else got any good tips on making your instruments sound more real, just by tweaking?

[mixopenta]

Good thread Jeffe!I would like to ask if somebody is familiar of a way to make the EW instruments to play outside their range? That's where I think interesting things usually starts to happen. Using products in a way they're not supposed to be used. This used to be easier with hardware stuff than it is with today's software. As soon as you're trying to get creative with these sort of products a pop-up message comes up and informs you that "you're not allowed to perform this operation", or the software crashes... When we don't have access to the real thing, do we really need to emulate it? Or is there an opportunity here to get creative and emulate what emotion that instrument is trying to convey, rather than trying to recreate its exact texture or timbre? Is there a way to conceive a substitute for the instrument that can really stand on it's own?Back to the question; I often find myself superimposing strings with synthesized strings to make it less apparent they are emulated.

[sgs4u]

Quote:Anybody else got any good tips on making your instruments sound more real, just by tweaking? use different snare samples on beat 2 & 4record live hi hats, while using sampled Kik & Snaredelay the hi hat & cymbal tracks 15 ms advance the hi hat & cymbal tracks 10 ms for choruses

[arkjack]

Jeffe:I don't know when the last time you checked out drums and drummers was, but you aren't paying attention..... the rigs these days have a pedal set up that ties the hats and the kick together in a two stage pedal. So if a right-legged drummer has his left on the main kick pedal, he can use his left foot on the the two-pedal set-up... 1st foot pad plays just hats.... second pad plays kick for a double kick drum.... I was just at a jazz fest and every set I saw and every player had this set-up.... I've always kept my rhythms pretty basic, but I always watch what drummers are doing... must be a low-ender thang....ArkJack

[sgs4u]

Quote:Jeffe:the rigs these days have a pedal set up that ties the hats and the kick together in a two stage pedal. ArkJack It's so much fun (not), when a drummer first gets that rig. Every song ends up with a 16 note kick pattern, until they figure what that dang double kik pedal is good for. Notice any drummers here on these forums lately?

[jeffe]

Quote:Jeffe:I don't know when the last time you checked out drums and drummers was, but you aren't paying attention..... the rigs these days have a pedal set up that ties the hats and the kick together in a two stage pedal. So if a right-legged drummer has his left on the main kick pedal, he can use his left foot on the the two-pedal set-up... 1st foot pad plays just hats.... second pad plays kick for a double kick drum.... I was just at a jazz fest and every set I saw and every player had this set-up.... I've always kept my rhythms pretty basic, but I always watch what drummers are doing... must be a low-ender thang....ArkJackSorry 'bout that Arkjack. Must be my in-experience. I should have ignored my daughters uncle when he suggested that to me. Still, it's been a while since he toured with the everly brothers, georgie fame, lord rockingham's XI and others. My god. Hoot's mon! Blame him Though he was telling me this, being aware that I wasn't a drummer, and said I should just start with the basics. Perhaps he mean't going on to that more complicated stuff later!Hey Steve. Some great tips there

[arkjack]

OK ....Jeffe.... Sorry if my comment came off demeaning.... its the way we rib each other when were out fishing.... Anyway, I think these rigs are getting pretty popular, and part of the "dated" sound might come from not anticipating the effect that set up will have.... Another place where I got some insight to that was from Anthony Wellington. His lessons on FUNK are really useful for programming your drum and bass rhythm... getting that hit on the right spot of the sixteenths... The other technique I've played with in trying to get better sounding drums is to layer up on three or four different machines.... a little time consuming though....ArkJack

[jeffe]

Lol.It was just a bit of sarcasm with a dash of irony. He probably told me the best thing to start with because I knew absolutely nothing about drums then. So I started with that premise.I remember a few friends and I going out night fishing on a lake. It was a bit windy, and eventually we all fell asleep under our fishing umbrellas. The fish weren't biting.I woke up first. It was light and I looked around, and saw one of my friends curled up on the ground asleep. His umbrella was missing!After a very quick survey of the horizon, I found it. It was floating upside down on the middle of the lake. We didn't catch anything but I laughed so much I didn't care.Drum roll please Mr octopus (electronic ones will do).

[mazz]

Jeffe,I suggest checking out Toontrack's stuff. I just recently picked up EZ drummer and am very impressed with the results so far. It has one drum kit although you can get more if you need to. The great thing is that it has a whole bunch of MIDI loops that come with it that are all played by a real drummer. The drums are sampled at quite a few different velocities and they respond very nicely.One of the best things is that the drums were recorded in a world class studio in NY called Power Station. When you open up the mixer window you can adjust the mix of the individual drums along with overhead and room mics. The range of adjustment is from very dry 70s sounding drums to very ambient and anything in between.They also make dFH which has more flexibility but costs a bit more.I don't work for them so this isn't an infomercial. I just happen to be very impressed with the sound and feel of the drum parts that come out of this thing. My recent acid jazz piece "Bait and Switch" used EZ drummer for the body of the piece with some Hip Hop grooves from GrooveMonkee, a third party MIDI file developer.I don't have any qualms about using loops or MIDI loops. Some people are purists about this but I just don't have time to tweak the crap out of drum parts. I also don't just let one loop go througout the piece unless it is stylistically necessary.As far as making the EW instruments play out of their ranges, I would imagine that one could tweak the programs to extend the range of the samples. Kontakt 2 might be helpful in this area. I haven't tried to do it so I can't offer any advice.Happy virtual-drumming!Mazz

[jeffe]

Thanks Mazz. I'll check those out. I've got 10 kits on my current software through a plugin. Though I think they are Roland kits.