the Outsider

[sgs4u]

Quote:Steve, you will have to clue me in as to why anyone would purposely write a song to "sound familiar" unless it is for a listing asking for something that sounds like something else. Our philosophies and beliefs are apparently quite different on this matter. I agree that all twelve notes have already been played, I disagree this means I can write anything as long as it passes the legal test. My personal test is a lot tougher than the legal one. You said every chord has already been played. True enough, but every melody hasn't, and I was referring to your melody. Like I said, it happens to me also, and sometimes there just does not seem any place else to go.I will point out specific metering problems with the lyric when I get back in this evening.Hope you did not find the rest of my criticism too harsh or irrelevant. It means nothing if it is not honest. That does not mean you run up to a woman and shout, "Your baby sure is ugly." Honesty only counts if something useful is actually said. HJ, we don't have to like each other. I still respect you every morning when I get up. Our philosophies ARE very different, and I don't find yours to be wrong whatsoever. I guarantee you I look forward to each and every one of your posts. As you said, honesty only counts if something useful is said. I hope you can take the time to have another listen, because you always have awesome opinions to share!

[Casey H]

HeyMy few cents... First, I see a Janis Ian "17" influence, not a copy... There is a big difference. It also had a Jackson Browne sound to it. As always, the grouch writes great lyrics and tells great stories.I didn't think the music and lyrics were quite ready for each other yet in places. It felt a little "forced" with syllables sometimes jammed in. It also didn't feel like the music ever "took off" to a hook-y chorus. The part, "She sits alone on the short school bus" sounded like great pre-chorus but then there is a bit of a letdown. The result is it goes on like reading a story but not a killer song.Although Country is not my best area, MHO is a re-write with a strong chorus that makes it so you can't get the words "the outsider" out of your head would give it a huge boost.As far as film/TV, the song still has to quickly capture the listener. One thing that can be an obstacle there is a very specific storyline. Many of my own songs are like that and think about re-writes to be a touch more general all the time. Now play nice Steve and Horace.... Don't make us have to give you a "time out".Warmest Regards, Casey

[sgs4u]

Quote:First I even heard of it. I gather you do like snide bullshit. Well then... It must be all my own reaction to your special brand of prickly communication. Because I really don't enjoy snide crap at all. OTOH, you are a tough nut to impress, and your thoughts are usually specific and clear. Remember, I'm the guy who would prefer to be the class clown. Thankfully, I play a lot of hockey, which keeps my nastiness in check, most of the time.Quote:You have done a tremendous job with the music though, and Couch is consistently a brilliant lyricist.There is not much to complain about.Thank you, but it's not a Nashville demo, so I don't really know if anyone'll take the song seriously. Quote:The sung version is not identical to the lyrrics you provided, and I take that as evidence you are still in the process. You seem to have have made good editorial choices.The addition of "All" to line five of the first verse was a good choice, but the line still feels a bit crammed. Perhaps without the word "Layin" it would go smoother.Line three of the second verse and line two of the second chorus may be a tad awkward. I realize you had your work cut out for you preserving those excellent internal rhymes. Good job there. I am wondering if you can do even better.Line four of the chorus is better with "And."Ignoring the already spilled fact that I don't like the well trodden melody over the first two lines of the verses, the above really isn't much, is it?Thanks for all the specifics. I'll check out all your suggestions Monday. To me, every song is a work in progress until it's out of my hands. I will keep polishing this, until it shines, the best I can. Quote:I like it more with multiple listens. It is a strong song, maybe more. I wouldn't even consider libraries, I would hold it back to pitch to bigger fish. Congratulations to both authors. HJ, thanks again for taking the time to listen so attentively . You know I'm not looking for "nice beat, comments." I'm also quite aware that Taxi and most Southerners reaction will be to suggest getting it demoed in Nashville. Maybe this one's worth it. I agree, I don't think it's a library song. We'll see what develops.

[liamkelly]

I'm with clonsberry here. I'd also be a bad Taxi screener. I am just not able to critique this in a way that would add anything useful to this track. I think it's great.Sure, the lyrics tumbled a bit here and there (isn't that sometimes a good thing?), sure the chorus may need a bit of crunch or lift or something je ne sais quoi but for me this song has a very well written storyboard, a good vocal delivery and emotional punch.Polish away, Steve. Don't overpolish though. Liam

[liamkelly]

Quote:Again, I like this song and have been following the threads. I agree with Svenni that your voice is the hook. The song the way it is has a satire feel about it. Your voice is honest, sincere and no offense a little juvenile and goofy. It is a fun song and not meant to be taken seriously and I assume that was your intent. It's fun!!! I would tighten up the phrasing a bit and call it done. I don't see this at all in mainstream radio but could see it as a TV show theme or a movie. Much like the girl in the song, I seemed to have missed the bus here. So, Steve or Grouch jump in as soon as you can.I didn't get a fun song out of this at all. I got loneliness (however you spell it) and lots of it at a time when peer pressure is the pre-eminent influence in one's life. That's why I thought the vocal was compelling.If it's a fun song... well, I need it explained to me. Call me dumb. Whatever. I missed the joke Liam

[sgs4u]

As I sit here, my 8 yr oldest son is practicing boogie-woogie, and he's wearing a complete cowboy outfit. And now the 2 boys (the other 5) are practicing Smoke on the Water. And now he's playing one of my songs. I feel absolutely awesome. My bald head is totally sunburned from going with the family to a waterslide park, for 4 hours. The front man of the band I'm playing in tonite is making a movie about a band, kind of like "the Commitments," but quite differently, doing lots of animation. He's going to use intersperse footage of us playing 3 of our original songs, and I'm the MD. Then I have all of you to thank for giving this song some of your precious time. I'm not sure if Robert is yet aware of this thread. I'm be emailing him pronto. Today, my life is amazing.

[dgolding]

It's interesting that a few folks have said that they called their wife in to listen to the song. That's exactly what I did too.It immediately struck me as a country song, and as she's a southern gal, I thought she might like it, as indeed she did.

[sgs4u]

Quote:As an arranger I would suggest at one point slowing the tempo and giving a slight pause just before the last chorus, it felt a bit rushed there and I wanted to emotionally digest the part about the pen, the pain and the tears. As a listener I trust the chorus is coming so no need to get right to it at that point.Mazz This is a brilliant idea Mazz, worthy of exploring, Because that last chorus doesn't need to be exacly the same as the others, it could be deeper, dynamically. thx Mr Mazz Fast Forwards!(you know what I mean)

[sgs4u]

Quote:Steve,Just to clarify my suggestion: I meant a ritard towards the end of the section before the last chorus, a pause while the chord rings out and then back to the original tempo for the last chorus. The chorus could still be deeper dynamically but I don't think it needs to be at a slower tempo than the rest of the song, although it might be worth a try!Take care of that sunburn!Mazz Didn't need clarification, but thanks. Great minds think alike. I'm just so lousy at clearly responding with typing. A rit in that exact spot is indeed what I thought you meant. I'm also thinking the first 2 lines of the chorus right after that, don't need to come in as big as the other choruses. Just adding little more tenderness. The last chorus being a slower tempo all the way out would be a bit of a death knell to the vibe... ps: I love your new quotes!