Revision - Song Critique Please?

[rockmann]

Hi Everyone,We've just put what we think will be the 'final' touches on a new song. Actually, the song was originally done with a Charlie singing vocals, but now that Dee is working with us, he put his spin on the tune and really gave it a different feel.I would be grateful for any thought or comments. The song is called Epic of War and can be heard here:http://www.soundclick.com/util/streamm3 ... 784&q=hiAs always feel free to comment on the song, structure, lyrics, mixing, tone, you name it! I've learned a lot in my short time here and I do appreciate the time folks have offered to listen and comment.Thanks!

[liamkelly]

Hi SteveIt's difficult for me to critique this - the style is way outside my frame of reference. But in the spirit of keeping these forums busy (and in getting others to have give a crit) I'm going to give it a go.Firstly - technically there is little to fault. I can't believe you did this in Adobe Audition! The vocals are super for the genre. Very Bruce Dickinson - grand and swooping - but perfect for the genre. They do give the track an 80s majestic-metal feel but I suspect that's what you wanted. Gtr playing and tone too are great - a couple of spots peaked a bit but not too noticeably.I felt the drum programming (I'm guessing it was a machine - not that I have a problem with drum machines per se) was the weakest link. Tracks like this typically have such dynamic drumming with the drummer progressively opening his hats a bit more with each progression and ending up really smacking that snare. That wasn't here. I also thought the ride cymbals coming in on every prechorus (or chorus) tapping a 4-beat got a bit predictable.Lyric -wise it really suited the genre (again!). My personal preference for protest songs is more on the one-man-and-his-acoustic-guitar vibe but I'm trying my best!In summary - a live drummer will make more difference than you suspect - great vocals and vox-gtr call and response - and overall a super effort for that genre.In terms of the whole Taxi thing - I suspect you might find (as I do) limited opportunities for this niche.But we're not writing songs for Taxi.

[edteja]

Hey Steve,I think this sounds strong -- it certainly is well done. My only suggestion would be to add some dynamics, especially when the lyric is talking about destroying the land and all. A changeup in the rhythm, a let up in the driving sound would be very effective. Let the music flow behind those phrases. Just a thought.

[rockmann]

Quote:It's difficult for me to critique this - the style is way outside my frame of reference. But in the spirit of keeping these forums busy (and in getting others to have give a crit) I'm going to give it a go.And that's a great reason to reply! This place can be a little slow at times. Quote:Firstly - technically there is little to fault. I can't believe you did this in Adobe Audition! The vocals are super for the genre. Very Bruce Dickinson - grand and swooping - but perfect for the genre. They do give the track an 80s majestic-metal feel but I suspect that's what you wanted. Thanks. Dee certainly does a great job on this tune with the vocals. It wasn't really the plan to create an 80's feel, but it appears most of our stuff is taking that path. We're currently working on a new original that I think might end up with a more modern overall sound.We've been pretty happy with Adobe Audition. With that and a few plugins, we've found it pretty powerful.Quote:Gtr playing and tone too are great - a couple of spots peaked a bit but not too noticeably.Charlie does most of the guitar work on this song. I have the two solos and the rest his him. He's really has dialed in a great tone lately.Quote:I felt the drum programming (I'm guessing it was a machine - not that I have a problem with drum machines per se) was the weakest link. Tracks like this typically have such dynamic drumming with the drummer progressively opening his hats a bit more with each progression and ending up really smacking that snare. That wasn't here. I also thought the ride cymbals coming in on every prechorus (or chorus) tapping a 4-beat got a bit predictable.You are right on the money here. We acknowledge that the drums are our week spot. They are programmed ( http://www.pcdrummer.com ) and could certainly be better. Neither of us are drummers, so we're still trying to learn how to think like a drummer. It ain't easy! I'll take your suggestions and see if we can't tweak a little more out of the drum track.Quote:Lyric -wise it really suited the genre (again!). My personal preference for protest songs is more on the one-man-and-his-acoustic-guitar vibe but I'm trying my best!Hehe.. I'm glad you're making the effort. Seriously! Plus, it's not often that the lyrics get commented on, so it's good to hear. We're no poets or lyricists, but for rock and roll, that's usually not the number one requirement.Quote:In summary - a live drummer will make more difference than you suspect - great vocals and vox-gtr call and response - and overall a super effort for that genre.I agree. We had a friend who is a drummer program one tune for us (he couldn't record live at the time) and it is a night/day difference. We would certainly love to get a drummer to collaborate with us and let us guitar players do what we do best! (hold your comments!!) Quote:In terms of the whole Taxi thing - I suspect you might find (as I do) limited opportunities for this niche.But we're not writing songs for Taxi. Yeah, in terms of marketability, our tunes are going to find a tough road. But as you said, we're not doing this for anyone but ourselves. If we were to get lucky and get a placement in a period movie/tv show, that would be great. If not, the journey will still be exciting!Thanks for taking the time to listen and post. Especially since this song was a bit out of your 'comfort zone'. I do appreciate it!

[rockmann]

Quote:Hey Steve,I think this sounds strong -- it certainly is well done. My only suggestion would be to add some dynamics, especially when the lyric is talking about destroying the land and all. A changeup in the rhythm, a let up in the driving sound would be very effective. Let the music flow behind those phrases. Just a thought.Thanks, Ed. I do believe you're right. We're considering some harmonies in the those parts also. A little of that and little more dynamics in those parts and it would probably be an improvement. We'll see what we can come up with.Thanks for listening and replying!

[liamkelly]

Hey SteveJust a thought. Drums wise I (and many others) use the DOD products. They're at www.drumsondemand.comThey sell banks of drum loops that have been recorded professionally using top drummers. The loops have no EQ, verb or effects. Each bank has a style 9dry, punchy, pop, metal, new metal etc.), tempo (that you can change) and 4 or 5 verse options, 4 or 5 chorus options, 4 or 5 bridge options, outtros, intros, pres etc. I am in no way connected to the company - this is not at all a pitch or spam or anything. I don't know them and get nothing from them. Their loops just sound so real is all. Have a look if you like.Best regardsLiam

[johnnydean1]

Quote:Hey SteveJust a thought. Drums wise I (and many others) use the DOD products. They're at www.drumsondemand.comThey sell banks of drum loops that have been recorded professionally using top drummers. The loops have no EQ, verb or effects. Each bank has a style 9dry, punchy, pop, metal, new metal etc.), tempo (that you can change) and 4 or 5 verse options, 4 or 5 chorus options, 4 or 5 bridge options, outtros, intros, pres etc. I am in no way connected to the company - this is not at all a pitch or spam or anything. I don't know them and get nothing from them. Their loops just sound so real is all. Have a look if you like.Best regardsLiamI like the sounds but couldn't somebody have shut Yoko up while they were being recorded.I'm not buying them!

[rockmann]

Quote:Just a thought. Drums wise I (and many others) use the DOD products. They're at www.drumsondemand.comThanks for tip, Liam. I'll certainly give them a listen and see if they make it a bit easy for us and the drum tracks.

[dada]

Rockermann,Good solid tune and definitely great vocals and guitar playing... I do agree with Ed on the dynamics thing... seems like the more you trick it up with cools stops and fills, it adds a bit of production and individualism... Now if I could only do it proficiently..Being a fellow guitar player, I can side with you on the drum thing... programming sucks... I just want to play... I have the DOD set that was mentioned and I think you'll be happy with it... It's not the end all as I find I write to fit the dynamics of the drum patterns I have at times... and If I come up with something cool it sometimes hard to find the right pattern to fit exactly..Keep tracking,Davidhttp://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm? ... 80">Sounds by Dave music

[rockmann]

Quote:Good solid tune and definitely great vocals and guitar playing... I do agree with Ed on the dynamics thing... seems like the more you trick it up with cools stops and fills, it adds a bit of production and individualism... Now if I could only do it proficiently..Yup, I do agree. It could use a bit of something here and there to make it stand out. I'll work on somethings.Quote:...I have the DOD set that was mentioned and I think you'll be happy with it... It's not the end all as I find I write to fit the dynamics of the drum patterns I have at times... and If I come up with something cool it sometimes hard to find the right pattern to fit exactly.We went ahead and got the DODs. I agree. They're a great way to put together a drum track. But as you mentioned, they can be a bit limiting. I think we'll end up using a combination of programmed drums and loops. Probably not in the same song, but on different productions.Thanks for the suggestions and for listening!