Song length

[nomiyah]

An Instrumental listing says "60 seconds to 2 minutes is the recommended length for this pitch". I want to submit a track that's over 3 minutes (it's the instrumental version to a song) but everyone on this forum says I have to pay attention to the wording in the listing.My question is should I edit it to 2 minutes or just submit it as is? The thing I like about the long version is that there are different mixes throughout so there's more to choose from. Will a Taxi listener see the length and return it on that basis?Thanks in advance,Nomi

[Casey H]

Hey Nomi I wouldn't submit anything more than 2 minutes whether or not you think it will make it past the TAXI screener. If a recipient sees it has a track length of over 3 minutes, they might not listen at all... And if they won't be hooked in the first 2 minutes, nothing matters anyway. Just like with vocals, you have to wow them pretty quickly, often within 30 seconds.I would edit the piece down to under 2 minutes -or- make 2 segments of about 60-90 seconds each and submit both.Lotsa luck... Caseywww.broadjam.com/hurowitzwww.caseysongs.comwww.myspace.com/charles_p_huowitz(Too many darn URL's !! )

[davewalton]

Hi Nomi,There's usually no danger in taking the listings literally. Rationalization is the thing that usually gets me in trouble (i.e. "I know they want 'x' but I'm sure they'll accept 'y' because <insert reason here>).If at all possible I'd stick with the recommendation. It might seem "optional" but someone made a point to specify the track length. We're an odd group. We have threads that talk about how sketchy or vague the listing information is sometimes and then when they're specific, we talk about if it's OK to to ignore that. DavePS - I didn't win the $365 million Powerball last night. Bummer.

[matto]

Edit it to 2 minutes or under, in a way that makes musical sense. It would be silly to jeopardize your chances by not following guidelines. If the tune gets forwarded, and you get a callback, then that would be the time to tell them about the long version.mattoQuote:We're an odd group. We have threads that talk about how sketchy or vague the listing information is sometimes and then when they're specific, we talk about if it's OK to to ignore that.Lol Dave

[johnnydean1]

Quote:I'm still curious if Taxi screeners listen to the whole song or just a minute or two. Does anyone know how that works?It seems fairly obvious to me that they listen to the whole song.If they can make comments on the song from start to finish the chances are they have listened to all of it.When broadband first started and before I became a Primo Member I wanted to get some Review Credits.I listened to about 400 songs over a period of a couple of weeks and now I have every sympathy with the Taxi Screeners.The songs I listened to ranged from absolutely pathetic to absolutely brilliant.The vast majority were in the first category!I found myself scoring on Production,Arrangement,Recording Quality within five seconds of the song starting.Occasionally I would go back and adjust the score either way.At the risk off sounding conceited I have always been able to pick chart material (writing them is another matter) and in all the time I have been listening I have only ever heard "one" song that could have been a hit and even then that would have needed some work.So for the screeners to listen all day everyday to our sometimes less than wonderful efforts and still make encouraging and helpful comments is something little short of a miracle.J.

[davewalton]

Quote:say there's 400 submissions to a country listing... maybe 20 get forwarded. My only sense of how many submissions they get for listings comes from just one instance, so it may not be representative but I bet it's not far off. A music library ran several listings in the instrumentals section and asked that they not be screened - all forwarded. There were no critiques. He later told me that he received something like 5000 tracks for those listings (I think it was something like five or six listings total). This is the one where I got a placement (so did other Taxi members I know) but it took a year for them to contact me because of the volume of music they received. Now, that's what the library owner told me so that's all I can say about that.I used to think that only a small handful were getting forwarded. From a percentage standpoint, that's true. Even if only 400 people submit on average to a country listing, and most submit multiple songs, that would put the number of submitted songs for that listing to over a thousand. With Taxi membership numbering in the thousands, I have to guess that more than 400 of those members submit to country and pop listings, probably the most popular categories. On most listings, I'm guessing that the forwards are in the hundreds but that's just a guess.Suffice to say that Taxi has a lot of members and the listings are almost always very attractive. Not a surprise that there would be a lot of competition. Quote:..."for the screeners to listen all day everyday to our sometimes less than wonderful efforts and still make encouraging and helpful comments is something little short of a miracle." ...Amen to that! Dave

[matto]

Quote: On most listings, I'm guessing that the forwards are in the hundreds but that's just a guess.How many submissions get forwarded depends on several factors, including number of total submissions, number of quality submissions, and most importantly "the bar" (no Dave, not that kind of bar... ).Essentially the company placing the listing tells Taxi how picky the screeners should be. The bar tends to be lowest for the smaller music libraries, and highest for "hit song" listings (which most Nashville listings are) or major label listings looking for new "star quality" artists. Everything else is in between.The percentage of forwards is a function of this. High bar listings definitely won't have a hundred forwards, even if there are thousands of submissions; it's more like 10-20 forwards, sometimes it could be less than ten if the bar is sky high. Low bar listings might have a hundred forwards, depending on the number of submissions.And yes, the screeners do listen to the entire song (unlike just about anybody else in the music business).

[Casey H]

Quote:I submitted a song with a particularly distinctive bridge that everyone comments on. The screener didn't mention the bridge (which came after 2 verses) so I wasn't sure they had listened that far. I had pitched the same song to a couple of publishers who also didn't listen to the bridge simply because it was so far into the song. I'm the type of listener who gives a song sixty seconds or less to grab me, addicted to the radio scan feature. And I know that most people in the industry listen the same way. So it wasn't meant to be a judgment on Taxi procedures but just information. Thanks for your comments.Nomi NomiI'm sure you are experienced enough to know all this, but I thought I'd ask: Did the song have a chorus after the first or second verse? Was it an A-A-B-A song (no chorus)? If there is a hooky chorus maybe you can figure out how to get there sooner. If the bridge makes the hook, maybe you could figure out how to rewrite that as a chorus....Also:I once attended a seminar by a well-known author and songwriter who also worked as a TAXI screener. When asked if TAXI listened to the whole song, he replied yes unless it is SO far off the mark there is no point... i.e. a metal rock song submitted for a folk listing. This is just what HE said, I can't speak for TAXI.Casey

[Casey H]

NomiNah, never enough music (or dating ) talk...If you are happy the way it is on your CD, I wouldn't rush to change what works. And if you do play around with it, you will have both versions anyway.You said you sent it to publisher(s)... Was your goal to pitch to artists? Publishers only want songs that are hit single material, generally chorus driven, with a hook within 1 minute.Ahhh, this brings up the great divide.... Non-performing songwriters pitching SONGS vs. performers doing gigs and/or selling their own CDs. Non-performing songwriters are held to a very high standard, especially if they are unknown. (Known ones can often write crap as you know from your radio)... Indie performers selling their own CDs have much more leeway. People will either like what they hear and buy it - or- not. Songs don't get dissected like an English term paper .Speaking of the English teacher thing, on some of the first songs I submitted to publishers, I got my lyric sheets back with mark-ups ("Awkward", "Cliche", etc). I spent hundreds of dollars on studio time with rewritten lyrics- ones I never liked as much... But they rhymed better or cleared up the story line, etc... I reacted too fast on too few opinions and wasted my money.Anyway, I digressed a bit... It all depends on your goal. As a non-performing songwriter follow the "rules"; For your own pleasure and CD sales do it as you feel it... PS I'd love to hear the song.... Feel free to PM or email me... Casey

[Casey H]

Hi Nomi I listened about 5 times. I love your lyrics- you have a gift there, a little like Joni Mitchell's ability to express things. "Benefits" does what new songs should do. Say things in a way that has not often been done before.I wouldn't change a thing. At first I also was concerned that the full chorus didn't come in until 2 minutes. But you do such a great job with the teasers in the intro and between v1 and v2! I love songs that open with all or part of the chorus. I also love songs that build with a short chorus early and the full one later... The last minute of the song is magical. It would be nice if you could get some of that energy out earlier in the song.Did you get any actual feedback from the publishers who listened? From what I read, you already have positive reviews and have at least generated publisher interest. Don't rush to fix what may not be broken. This one will be in my head all day. Casey