Ambient with Momentum ..... huh??

[teleblaster]

Nice pieces guys. I'd like to chime in and co-miserate if I might..

I got a return on 3 tracks with the same basic f/b as JS: "more momentum sooner in the piece would fully engage the listener". I should note that I know nothing about these bands other than Explosions. I wrote some pieces for a library a while back that were based on their sound so I 1/2 blindly tossed them at this listing.

I'm still trying to crack the code here too. To my mind Explosions music is all about a slow build, and in some cases momentum is not even really part of the equation. But, I didn't do dilligence and listen to the other bands referenced.

Big thanks to Mazz for chiming in with his advice. Helped assuage some of my 'I suck' feelings and point me in a positive direction -- i.e. things I can work on to get better at this trade.

Here's to forwards, deals and placements for all of us in the near future.

[ibanez468guit]

Hey Stuart!

Thanks for the constructive criticism. 'Preciate it. Did you listen to the tune I referenced from Thievery Corp.? Did you hear the bass line in there? Same bass line over & over. Theirs sounds pretty mechanical to me as well. Besides, I don't think the bass was even the issue here. My return was simply marked "Stylistically off target". That's it. I don't think it would've mattered what kind of bass line I put in there, it wasn't gonna' get forwarded, 'cause screener didn't think it was the right style for this listing, period. Oh well...gotta' keep movin' on.

ibanez468

[wickedsmaht]

ibanez,

I submitted for a later listing for an a la Thievery Corporation ("Criminality Incorporated" on my Taxi page). I don't have the results yet, but my process was somewhere between yours and Mazz's.

Like you, I thought that "Radio Retaliation" is pretty different from their work of ten years earlier. But I also wondered, "what if the listing party is thinking of their best known work rather than their latest work?" So I tried to find the commonalities between their latest work and their biggest "hit" ("Lebanese Blonde" from the Virgin Suicides soundtrack). I thought that "Mandala" had a similar feel, groovy dance beats with sitar in the lead, so that's what I went for. I also felt like the bass line was repetitive but real -- so I played a bunch of real electric bass parts, picked my favorite couple of bars, and made my own loops out of them.

Regarding your piece compared to "Sound the Alarm," I feel like the original has an urgency and energy that yours doesn't have because of a slower tempo and sparser drum line. Listen again to "Sound the Alarm," with those aggressive half-open hats, and the drum loop that's full of ghosted kick and snare hits on nearly every sixteenth note. I also think TC puts a lot of what Rob Chiarelli calls "dirt" on their productions, while yours sounds almost too clean in comparison.

Again, I don't have results on my submission yet, so I could be right here next to you in a couple of weeks, questioning what the screener was thinking!

[ibanez468guit]

Hey Jonathan!

I have to make sure I clear one thing up. My piece wasn't modeled after "Sound the Alarm". It was modeled specifically after "Radio Retaliation" (I thought I mentioned that in a previous post). So yeah, there wouldn't be any comparison to "Sound the Alarm" at all. What I spent a great deal of time listening to was "Radio Retaliation". Hell, I had the tune loaded up in Sonar, listening from one bar to next as I put my tune together, trying carefully not to infringe on theirs. I hear what you're saying about "Sound the Alarm", but that wasn't what I was trying to shoot for.

Just out of curiosity, how can you & Stuart be certain that what you hear, isn't a real bass that got looped? Inquiring minds want to know. Talk to me.


ibanez468

[cardell]

Just out of curiosity, how can you & Stuart be certain that what you hear, isn't a real bass that got looped? Inquiring minds want to know. Talk to me.

It's because it doesn't feel or sound real. Real bass has sexual energy. I play bass. I'm not a great player but even an average bass line (that is real) will feel much better than a fake one. It makes the rhythm come to life.

Stuart

[wickedsmaht]

That is a real bass. It's funny, I recently had someone tell me in a peer to peer review (on a different song) that my sampled bass sounded too quantized, but it was me playing electric bass.

And you're right, you did specify that this was modeled after "Radio Retaliation" but I got confused. I guess the title "Red Alert" made me think of "Sound the Alarm." I think that would actually have been a better song to work from, because as Mazz noted, Thievery Corporation has a lot of world influences, but "Radio Retaliation" itself is sort of atypical in that it's almost straight-ahead reggae or dub. In other words, you hit your target, but you may have chosen the wrong target.

Jazzstan -- sorry to hijack your thread here! I also liked your piece, but I do think it had more of a New Age vibe than the listed a la's. In any case, I think the brevity of the feedback you get in a Yes/No listing can drive you crazy trying to read too much into it.

[rnrmachine]

Hey guys,

When I listened to ala's, in the past, I used to pick a song and go with that flow but I never tried to get a "sound a like" I have found that most places don't want obvious sound-a-likes. They want something that COULD have been done by one those bands listed and had it been done... it would have been one of their better ones. Not like one of their album cuts. I think what Mazz said here is gold, seriously. When a list of ala's is mentioned, there may be 2 bands that have a hard rock edge then the 3rd band is more ballad rock edge. In the past I would have gone with the hard rock edge, because it is what I am passionate about the most, completely ignoring the ballad band. I think the key thing here is to do what Mazz said and take into account the whole... the sum of the equation and not specific parts. Then you may realize that, the first 2 bands may have had a couple ballad rock edge hits and that 3rd band mentioned was the "key" to understanding... THIS is what they THINK they want.

I had the advantagous moment to listen to the song a listing chose once, not Taxi just fyi, AND the song they choose.. Didn't fit the Ala's for CRAP... the song did however fit the BRIEF description of what they wanted. In case you are curious... I will post in another reply the details... my next post.

Sometimes I think the people are not 100% sure what they want either.. they just know if they had unlimited funds, had a song wrote, recorded and performed by one of the ala's it would probably work for that thing they are trying to fill. They toss out these ala's and hope someone finds that juice that they will know when they hear it. It could be, the screener don't know either and blocked that song that the AD placer would have wanted... BUT I think it is more like... the screener hears your interpretation and sometimes is shocked at how you veiwed this listing. Maybe the screener never even heard of that particular song you emulated and then feels like you were way off target. IF a listing wanted a specific song, they would mention that song and that song ONLY.

SO.. never try to copy a song, First off, it turns you into a scab in a unoin world, secondly it degrades you as an artist. DO what Mazz said and be infulenced by the "whole" and I think you will find youself ending up with some forwards.

Rob

Again.. as usual, awesome wisdom Mazz! I would have quoted because it was so nice it should have been said twice but then this post would start to resmemble the US constitution in length. LOL

[rnrmachine]

Ok these are the details I promised... I think it will be good for those wise enough to pay close attention here.. it was a BIG wake up call for me and totally re-enforced my belief in.. if the listing wants a pink cadalac.. no matter what you give them, if it's not their pink cadalac, they are NOT going to want it EVEN IF you gave them a song that was in the perfect vein of the ala's. The listing asked for....

1980s Style Rock: AD Campaign Needs Music

Looking For: Sound-a-likes or tracks close in style, instrumentation, production value, and lyrics to the following songs

David Lee Roth - Goin' Crazy
Great White - Baby's On Fire
Motley Crue - Kickstart My Heart
Ratt - Lay It Down
Savatage - Power Of The Night
Warrant - Cherry Pie

A music supervisor is working on a series of viral video spots for a trading company and needs music to accompany the videos. In this short spot, a 20-something male cleans his apartment doing rocking air guitar moves. He does a huge jump on the couch and falls on the coffee table, demolishing it.

Here is a link to the song they chose... http://www.broadjam.com/player/player.p ... 471_427496 Focus on the guitar here since this is what they cared about the most.. per their listing description.

Need I say more?.. other then, would a Taxi screener had let that go by? IF so (and that is a BIG IF imho), would people be wondering.. but that song don't fit the ala's?? (like I have heard before) I know I SURE did think.. that don't fit any of the ala's.. it sounds like Randy Rhodes style guitar to me. None of which in those ala's have that style guitar! One could argue that Motely Crue "kick start my heart" is close but listen to the guitar.. it's really not close at all. But that IS what the person who placed the AD chose. I want to ad in.. peer review only rated that song at 30% of what was submitted. So in other words... if a 100 songs were submitted this song was ranked, by her peers, WAY down the list at the 70th postion.. IF 100 songs were submitted. SO.... That was their "Pink Cadalac" they were lookin' for though, they didn't even choose the right ala's if ya ask me. They should have said.. Ozzy with Randy Rhodes style guitar or a number of other bands... then they probably would have had a much better selection to choose from. Not that I didn't think that song was pretty good though.

Sometimes the people placing the listing aren't sure what they want.. but they will know when they hear it... this is yet another hurdle for us... they will know it when they hear it... sounds like it all comes right back to the "ear" thing and the "vibe" thing.

IF you gave them a "sound-a-like" you were screwed! Just some food for thought...

Rob

[ottlukk]

Ibanez:
Listened to your piece. not only did i like it, i thought it damned sophisticated. I think you got a screener with no taste.
Ott

[jdstamper]

You guys are making me feel better tonight. I got a return on this listing too, "stylistically off target" was the only comment. I worked hard trying to keep it on target with the bands in the listing. I've been a Taxi member for many years and I'm used to getting returns all the time, so I'm not complaining, but I did think it would get a forward. Just thanks for letting me know I'm not alone on this one.

My track is called "Ice Hot", on my Taxi page. Jim