Loading multiple instances in Logic

[slideboardouts]

So I got this plug in recently that has the absolute best hip hop drum sounds I've ever heard from any plug in or hardware work station/sampler. It has some interesting FX and instruments as well. I was pretty excited about it because there really isn't anything out there that is geared specifically toward hip hop and R&B. You kinda have to put things together from multiple plug ins and loops... and even then I find that I have to do a lot of mixing gimmicks, especially with the kicks.

There is one HUGE problem with this plug-in... it doesn't support multiple instances. You can only load up one instance at a time. You can send multiple midi channels out of the plug-in, but by doing that you are essentially running a mini sequencer inside of a real sequencer. The plug in is kinda designed like a virtual MPC, which is cool, but forcing you to use it as your sequencer instead of your DAW is ridiculous.

I'm wondering if anybody here knows a workaround for this. I found a workaround for the VST version in Ableton on a PC where you just duplicate the .dll file, rename it, and then drag and drop the .dll files onto your tracks. I posted this question in a Logic help forum and was told to duplicate the component file in the plug-in folder, but that didn't work. I still can't load a second instance, and I can't figure out a way to directly open up the duplicate component file in Logic.

Any ideas?

Thanks,
-Steve

[mazz]

Why do you need multiple instances? Does this have separate outputs? Can't you run the separate outputs (if it has them) to different tracks?

Another option would be to run it outside of Logic in something like Plogue Bidule via Rewire. I'm not sure if Rewire is 64 bit yet, but I use Bidule all the time and it works great to host plugins (still 32 bit at my place). You might even be able to have multiple instances of Bidule open and Rewire them back into Logic.

Yet another slightly more expensive option would be to run it in Vienna Ensemble Pro outside of Logic. You could probably have several versions of VEP open and send them back to Logic via it's own routing scheme.

[slideboardouts]

Thanks Mazz. I'll give those a shot. The re-wire option seems particularly interesting.

Why do you need multiple instances? Does this have separate outputs? Can't you run the separate outputs (if it has them) to different tracks?

I want to run multiple instances for a couple of reasons. One is that I would like to be able to use my stock Logic and third party plug-ins/FX on the drums and instruments in this particular plug-in. If, for example, I want to use another plug-in (like a waves compressor or Logic's Space Designer reverb plug) on the snare drum, I can't do that without affecting all of the other drum sounds coming from this particular plug-in.

I can run up to 16 different midi channels out of this plug-in to separate tracks. So in that way it kinda has multiple outputs but not really. I can have a separate track for the kick, snare, high hats, etc... But any effect that I apply to one of those tracks will automatically apply to ALL of the tracks. I can't even do basic panning and volume adjustments. So really, it only has one output it seems and all I can do is record on separate tracks for midi editing purposes.

The other reason I want to run multiple instances is that this plug-in has some pretty useful instrument sounds. Not mind blowing or anything, but for hip hop they are right in the pocket. But since I can't run more than one instance at a time, I have to make a choice... do I want to use the drum sounds, OR do I want to use one of the instruments? I can't do both, which is pretty lame IMO.

I suppose I can always record one track, bounce it out as an audio track, drop the wave file into Logic, and then load up a different sound. But that is pretty cumbersome and kinda reminds me of the "good ol' days" of sequencing on an MPC. But I guess that was kinda what these guys were going for with this plug-in. "Get out of the way future, its time for an extremely inconvenient blast from the past!"

-Steve

[mazz]

You track everything as audio anyway, don't you? It might take a little extra time, but it affords you the capability to revisit sessions even if your DAW or plugins become obsolete due to OS updates, computer upgrades, etc. A wav or aiff file is still a pretty common denominator in the audio world. Not so much with small plugin developers! They could be gone tomorrow! How will you restore that session from 5 years ago if the client all of a sudden wants an alt mix in a hurry for that big film project?!!

Just saying!



Good luck!

Mazz

[slideboardouts]

They could be gone tomorrow! How will you restore that session from 5 years ago if the client all of a sudden wants an alt mix in a hurry for that big film project?!!

Just saying!



Good luck!

Mazz

This exact thought has crossed my mind actually. Wave files it is!

Its too bad really because this company could fill a niche and dominate the market because there really isn't anything out there for hip hop like this plug-in. It was love at first listen for me... until I tried to open up a second instance. Then it broke my heart

-Steve

[mazz]

OK, what is this mysterious piece of gear?

[slideboardouts]

OK, what is this mysterious piece of gear?

Its called "Beat Thang Virtual" by Beat Kangz. Yeah, pretty much the cheesiest name ever. And as a plug-in I feel its kind of half baked... not only because of the multiple instance thing but also its just not terribly user friendly. But the drum sounds are absolutely top notch for main stream hip hop. $119 for the "full" version, $49 for the "solo" version. The main difference between the two is that the solo version doesn't work as a plug in and it has fewer sounds than the full version. Of course, the "full" version doesn't work too well as a plug-in either

Here is a link: http://www.beatthang.com/products/beat- ... rtual.html

They don't really have much in the way of a demo, other than 2 kits playable from your keyboard (literally, your QWERTY keyboard... not your midi controller) towards about a quarter of the way down on this page: http://www.btvsolo.com/

The name is kinda cheesy, their website is an un-intuitive piece of crap, the plug-in doesn't support multiple instances despite the fact that we are living in the year 2012, and they seem to be more interested in selling an obsolete piece of hardware to go with the sounds for $999 than making a decent plug-in... but my god the drum sounds are glorious. Especially the kicks. Even if I just use this thing for kick drums I'm sure I'll get my money's worth out of it.

However, as good as the drum sounds are, I'm hesitant to recommend it to anybody until Beat Kangz gets their act together a little bit better. It took me 3 tries to order it because their shopping cart was malfunctioning, and apparently they had no idea it wasn't working until I notified them about it. You would think that after a while of having ZERO sales somebody would think that *maybe* something was up, but apparently that's not how they roll over at Beat Kangz. Also, it took 3 emails to customer support over the course of about a week to get an answer from them about ordering their product. I've never had such a hard time trying to give somebody $120. After they finally responded, they were pretty quick with responses after that and even gave me a free expansion pack for my troubles. Which was very nice of them. So they are trying, but they aren't quite there yet.

-Steve

[slideboardouts]

Did you try this?
http://www.learnbeatthang.com/beat-than ... ple-logic/

That video just shows you how to send multiple midi channels out of the plug-in, which is completely different from being able to open up multiple instances. The plug-in literally does not allow for multiple instances, so if you want to open up multiple instances it will have to be a work around that probably involves messing with the component files in the AU folder. Thats assuming its even possible in Logic. There is a way to do it in Ableton, but I can't figure out how to do it in Logic.

-Steve

[slideboardouts]

If so do this instead, create a track as "new" then create a second track as "new" and don't bother changing the MIDI channel, then on each track load Beat Thang. This should get what you're looking for.
I.

This does not work with Beat Thang. If you make a midi track, put Beat Thang on it, and then make another midi track you you will get an error message when you try to load up a second instance of Beat Thang telling you that you can't open up more than one instance of Beat Thang. This is how these fools coded the plug-in. Its not like Kontakt, PLAY, Nexus, Battery, Massive, Addictive Drums, or any other plug-in on the market which lets you open up multiple instances. You are literally not allowed to open up more than one instance of Beat Thang Virtual simultaneously. That was the point of the entire thread I started. It can't be done conventionally, it needs a work around like in Ableton as I explained here:

There is one HUGE problem with this plug-in... it doesn't support multiple instances. You can only load up one instance at a time. You can send multiple midi channels out of the plug-in, but by doing that you are essentially running a mini sequencer inside of a real sequencer. The plug in is kinda designed like a virtual MPC, which is cool, but forcing you to use it as your sequencer instead of your DAW is ridiculous.

I'm wondering if anybody here knows a workaround for this. I found a workaround for the VST version in Ableton on a PC where you just duplicate the .dll file, rename it, and then drag and drop the .dll files onto your tracks. I posted this question in a Logic help forum and was told to duplicate the component file in the plug-in folder, but that didn't work. I still can't load a second instance, and I can't figure out a way to directly open up the duplicate component file in Logic.

Sending out separate midi tracks from one instance of BTV (like in the video) is virtually useless as I explained earlier in the thread:

I want to run multiple instances for a couple of reasons. One is that I would like to be able to use my stock Logic and third party plug-ins/FX on the drums and instruments in this particular plug-in. If, for example, I want to use another plug-in (like a waves compressor or Logic's Space Designer reverb plug) on the snare drum, I can't do that without affecting all of the other drum sounds coming from this particular plug-in.

I can run up to 16 different midi channels out of this plug-in to separate tracks. So in that way it kinda has multiple outputs but not really. I can have a separate track for the kick, snare, high hats, etc... But any effect that I apply to one of those tracks will automatically apply to ALL of the tracks. I can't even do basic panning and volume adjustments. So really, it only has one output it seems and all I can do is record on separate tracks for midi editing purposes.

The other reason I want to run multiple instances is that this plug-in has some pretty useful instrument sounds. Not mind blowing or anything, but for hip hop they are right in the pocket. But since I can't run more than one instance at a time, I have to make a choice... do I want to use the drum sounds, OR do I want to use one of the instruments? I can't do both, which is pretty lame IMO.

-Steve

-Steve

[slideboardouts]

This does not work with Beat Thang. If you make a midi track, put Beat Thang on it, and then make another midi track you you will get an error message when you try to load up a second instance of Beat Thang telling you that you can't open up more than one instance of Beat Thang. This is how these fools coded the plug-in. Its not like Kontakt, PLAY, Nexus, Battery, Massive, Addictive Drums, or any other plug-in on the market which lets you open up multiple instances. You are literally not allowed to open up more than one instance of Beat Thang Virtual simultaneously. That was the point of the entire thread I started. It can't be done conventionally, it needs a work around like in Ableton as I explained here:

This goes against the the purpose of an AU instruments in Logic.

The purpose of any instrument is to load it in any number of tracks within a DAW.

Thanks for pointing that out.

I would never consider buying this plug-in at all.

Yeah, tell me about it. I watched that video you posted before I bought it, but I just gave it a quick watch to make sure that it could indeed be used as an AU plug-in. If I would have paid more attention I would have seen that they were just sending multiple midi channels out from one instance.

But honestly, who would ever think that a virtual instrument in the year 2012 wouldn't allow for multiple instances? I'd never even heard of that until I got this plug-in.

Its really unfortunate too, because it has the best stock hip hop drum sounds out there. I'll get my money's worth out of it just from the kicks alone, but still, I definitely can't recommend it until they address this multiple instance issue.