My song about simple whimsical track got returned

[georgemargarita]

Well hey...we're George and Margarita.
Been with Taxi for a couple of months, and have already sent about 7-8 songs.
All got returned. Various reasons, mostly little details that are kind of frustrating, but we said "ok, we'll be more careful about what the listings ask for".
This time we sent the song "Celeste music box", you can listen to it on our page.

They said "Georgios, I think you do a good job capturing the "music box" sound and I like the idea of the cello to add depth and resonance but I find that the cello and melody aren't coming together to give you a cohesive sound. I also find that the cello adds more of a moody, haunting vibe rather than the "emotional lift" requested."

Now, I might be a little paranoid here, but I DO believe that it's a matter of taste and I can't agree on this. You can't just cut me off an opportunity like this one based on a man's personal taste. Still, I'm a team player and a good spirited man, and I love being around great musicians like all of you here (and you are indeed great) so, hit me!! Let me know what you think.

The listing said
"A-List NY AD AGENCY needs a Light, Whimsical INSTRUMENTAL TRACK for a Web Commercial that could migrate to TV.

They need a really simple, fairly stripped-down track that could either be keyboard OR acoustic guitar-based. Arpeggiated, MID-to-Up-Tempo (but not TOO Up-Tempo) Tracks that feel hopeful, intelligent, and slightly dreamy or whimsical are the order of the day.

Check out Bach's Cello Suite #1 to get yourself in the tempo and stylistic ballpark: http://bit.ly/19CDjWM

Now, imagine that done with a keyboard sound that's a hybrid of a kid's toy piano and mid-octave bells or a vibraphone. You could also do it with an acoustic guitar... maybe a classic guitar? They need Instrumentals that are at LEAST two-minutes long with a buttoned ending. If you track is longer (which might be a good idea), they will edit it down. NOTE: At 43 seconds into the spot, there's a little bit of an emotional lift, and we think introducing a very simple cello part could work nicely for that. If you've got another idea for a second instrument, go for it! That part doesn't necessarily have to remain in the whole rest of the track.

As we listened to the temp track, there was something that reminded us of what you'd hear coming out of a music box with a ballerina twirling on top, or possibly what you might hear coming from a cuckoo clock as the doors swing open and those little people pop out every hour on the hour.

Obviously, they are NOT looking for rip-offs of Bach's Cello Suite #1! That's just a good example of the tempo and arpeggiation. Keep it hopeful and a tad whimsical!"

[HectorRContreras]

Dear George and Margarita,

Nice to see another Couple here at TAXI.

"CELESTE MUSIC BOX" is so very pretty, very sweet. One can indeed imagine the little Ballerina dancing in the Music Box.
The Cello comes in the nick of time and is beautiful.

Now, "whimsical" in this case was probably something related to a little Elfe or Lutin or Pixie.

Anyway, you may want to read all the Posts and Comments here in the Forum, about this particular "Whimsical Instrumental for an Ad", so much it intrigued us in its difficulty. and difference.
http://forums.taxi.com/topic124763.html

Juliet and Andy had a Forward. Congratulations to them both.

Richard did not. Although his interpretation was so lovely.

And so is yours, dear George and Margarita.

You may want to hear mine, and why they called it "too esoteric for this Listing" will probably put a smile on your face !
It is called : "I should have imagined SIMPLICITY"
http://www.Taxi.com/E-2013-1844

[georgemargarita]

Hello dear Hector and thank you for welcoming us!!
You're the first Taxi member we've talked with so far!!
We indeed read everything under Richard's post, in fact this was what made us decide to make this particular post!!
We've listened both yours and Richard's and they're both beautiful, before we posted this. I have to say (I even wrote this under Richard's post), I adored his piece!! I liked it better than mine. And seeing it not getting forward, whereas other pieces that didn't seem to have cohesion in my view did, made me wonder what's going on...
Your piece is excellent, jazzy and really difficult to write!! You can understand that this pitch needed something a whole lot simpler I guess, haha!!
Anyway, thank you for the feedback, and thank you for your answer,it is very nice to meet you here!!
Say hello to Catherine from us!!

[andygabrys]

welcome George and Margarita!

sorry to hear your piece was returned.

Unfortunately, I can hear what the screener was talking about singling out the cello. I assume that this is a sample as the vibrato is very pronounced, very quick, and is omni-present. Mix wise, its much quieter than the Celesta / bells and space wise is much in the background. Perhaps that is what the found "haunting" about it. To me it didn't stand on equal footing with the Celesta.

In a two minute piece, you could also develop your primary motif as well - not to make it more complicated, but to layer other sounds with it - there are a number of Celesta type sounds in different libraries that all sound a little different, not to mention Glockenspiel, even a Rhodes piano. Lots of things to keep the piece unfolding and new.

If you are in need of solo cello samples here is a free one http://blakus.com/pocketblakus-192

I listened to the rest of the stuff on your TAXI page, and production and performance wise, the stuff sounds pretty good.

You have been submitting for a lot of listings that are either "very high bar" for ad listings or listings looking for "fresh cover versions of old tunes", which are also a very high bar listing cause usually the client seems to be looking for a really fresh approach, different from the original, and usually very contemporary. In most cases, they might blow their entire music budget, but they probably could license Roy Orbison's original version of "You got it". So they want to hear something a little different. Our version of "You Got it" was a forward on this http://www.taximusic.com/hosting/home.p ... ulietpadou and yeah, we tried to make it a little different.

It depends on your end goals as to which road you might find most fruitful here, in the regular listings there are plenty of music libraries and music supervisors looking for music for TV stuff to balance out the high stakes ad listings.

The ad listings are very selective. You are competing not only against the very best who are TAXI members, but against music which might come from a number of different sources. And there can only be one winner. Its unusual that you hear different pieces of music under the same commercial spot.

and yes like Hector mentioned, I did get forwarded for the Music Box ad listing https://soundcloud.com/andy-gabrys-music/bellissima - but I have got many returns as well, such as for the Orchestral SUV listing that you also wrote for https://soundcloud.com/andy-gabrys-music/pulse - i just wrote for the wrong aspects of the listing, too epic, not classical enough. Screener didn't care for the synth touches either.

Each time its an education in how to read a listing, and figuring out what words are the most important in that listing. Its also an exercise in imagining what other kinds of music could fit the same listing, even if it doesn't have "music box, ballerina sounds or cello". One of the forwards for this Music Box listing was not a piano / celesta / cello version.

Michael also has reviewed pieces that were returned and forwarded both on the Monday TAXI TV and the Wednesday TAXI Members Only Ustreams. Although sometimes I have no objectivity after a return after listening to my piece for hours, I usually find that hearing 5 pieces that were forwarded, and 5 that were returned, I start to notice the common aspects of the forwards - and on the opposite side, I hear the common aspects between the returns.

Hope that perspective helps.

Andy

[georgemargarita]

Thanks so much for your reply Andy, and for listening to our stuff as well!!
As you can see, I'm not complaining about the rest of the stuff, although I could say that the SUV piece was returned on accounts of its having a half second "silence" before it started. How foolish can this be? I didn't export from the exact second, because many players tread on the first note sometimes, but the second they were asking for the emotional lift was exact on time, once someone edited and cut the silence. The listing also said that if we had a longer piece it would be OK to submit it, because the ad agency would edit it and fit it in. Seems childish to me dumping my song then for a half second silence, when they would accept a 3 minute song and edit it...!!
Anyway I didn't complain about it, because I find that it was an early effort.
As for the cello on the Celeste, well I did listen to a song that was forwarded, where the cello was very low in the mix, and sounded indeed very keyboad-ish, and the emotional lift part didn't sound quite "lifting", apart from a pause on the 42nd second... I'm sure you know the one I mean. Still, I'll check out the samples you suggested, one can never have enough sounds in their library!!
Anyway, thank you for the feedback. I'm a very confident musician, and I don't feel like competing with people that are higher in the bar, at least not all the time.
Yes, Orbinson's song was very close to the original, and it was my very first effort so I'm not complaining.
But the Beach Boys song was made thinking Mumford and Sons, who were mentioned in the listing as a way to go musically. Still the screener said it bore a great resemblance to the original...(did the original have accordion in it??) while they forwarded a song where the singer was a little out of pitch, and the drums sounded like they were played on a Roland synth. As you heard, production matters a lot to me, and I'm more than competent in it.
As for your whimsical song that was given thumbs up, I listened to it yesterday and I gotta say I really liked it, it was on the spot, and the emotional lift part was marvellous!
Thanks again!!

[CrimsnSyrn]

Welcome, George and Margarita!

I listened to your piece and found it quite lovely - I'm sorry it didn't get forwarded. - You obviously know what you're doing.

And just so you know, if you wish to write negative words about another forum members' music, you don't have to do it openly here for all to see- you can always "PM or private message" the person you wish to write to.

Best,

[georgemargarita]

Well, I didn't mean to be so specific Juliet, and I'm really sorry if you got offended, didn't mean to do so.
But as Andy spoke his mind out in the open, I felt like defending myself in the open, and was careful not to mention the name of the member in reference. And I don't believe that I'm wrong, because the member in question here, did in fact openly state under the thread about their song, that the cello was mixed low ON PURPOSE.
So you see, hypocrisy is something I can't stand.
Thanks for welcoming me, and good luck with your forward!

[CrimsnSyrn]

FWIW, yes, the cello was mixed low on purpose, I stated that it was mixed low on purpose, and I wasn't offended that you restated that it was mixed low on purpose.

And I can't stand hypocrisy, either.

[georgemargarita]

I'm really glad to meet straight forward people then Juliet!!
We're on the same foot here!!

George

[andygabrys]

.......I could say that the SUV piece was returned on accounts of its having a half second "silence" before it started. How foolish can this be? I didn't export from the exact second, because many players tread on the first note sometimes, but the second they were asking for the emotional lift was exact on time, once someone edited and cut the silence. The listing also said that if we had a longer piece it would be OK to submit it, because the ad agency would edit it and fit it in. Seems childish to me dumping my song then for a half second silence, when they would accept a 3 minute song and edit it...!!

That's too bad that happened. It illustrates that everything you submit really needs to be on point - cause they get so much music that stuff that has deficiencies will get passed over.

Its generally understood that "longer pieces that will be edited" means pre-existing pieces that might be 2 minutes or more in length, where they would cut it down to make a 0:30. But a 0:30 that has a second of silence at the start could just have people scratching their heads. And if the music isn't amazing, they will probably move on.

Also on all the short term listings, where it says "no critiques will be given" - the fact that the screeners write a sentence at all has been a gift. They don't have to write anything. Sometimes its the major reason something was returned, sometimes its a contributing factor. Perhaps with your SUV piece the silence at the start was a contributing factor, but a point where the screener could offer a constructive suggestion for future submissions.

But as Andy spoke his mind out in the open, I felt like defending myself in the open, and was careful not to mention the name of the member in reference. And I don't believe that I'm wrong, because the member in question here, did in fact openly state under the thread about their song, that the cello was mixed low ON PURPOSE.

as much as I blather on in this forum - I am careful to make my comments constructive, and only when people have posted asking for feedback, as you did. I have asked for feedback in the past and I was thankful that people told me like it is.

And with regards to comparing your work vs. others that got forwarded, remember, on an ad listing like this - the only thing that matters (to me) is the eventual winner (which may not be a TAXI piece anyways like I stated before). Getting a forward just means you are in the ballpark for that particular listing.

anyways - Rock on! to the next listing!