How do I get my strings to sound more realistic?!

[ComposerLDG]

For me several things come into play. First of all, I never quantize strings (unless I'm doing some pop string thing, where they are more rhythm than anything else).

Second, it's easy to fall into the trap of playing the strings (or any other VI, for that matter) like your playing a keyboard. Chords, etc. The result is that every string player plays at exactly the same volume, etc., and makes it sound artificial.

Lately what I've been doing is, if I have say a string quartet playing for example, recording separate parts on 4 separate tracks. Then I go back and humanize them as much as I can by treating each part as a human player and adjusting volume automation, etc., to give human dynamics. The results are usually pretty good. This way you have the sound of 4 people each playing an instrument. Their dynamic patterns vary and weave in and out of each other, just like it would sound if it were a real performance. Doing this can make even samples that are a bit lacking sound pretty darn good.

Anyway, hope that helps.

[mojobone]

Near as I'm able to tell, THIS is the state of the art in virtual string instruments, at this moment. http://8dio.com/instrument-category/bun ... ng-bundle/

[burpo]

I heard Mark Snow* (and I think Jerry Goldsmith and Howard Shore echoed this sentiment)
say that the biggest killer of authenticity in MIDI string performance wasn't the quality of sample
so much as the quality/nature of the attack and release. He suggested automate-finessing the attacks
to rapid crescendo where a hard attack might be and jockeying the volume swells.

Hope this adds to the already terrific stew of info and suggestion.

Best.


*composer, X-Files, among others

[andygabrys]

New Native Instruments symphonic string package debut yesterday - designed by audiobro (LASS).

Includes easy access to attack and release settings (burpo) and lots of other good stuff.

Check the price too. - as an owner of one of the Komplete bundles it's $299. Otherwise $499.

[mojobone]

I'm still in LA, but when I get home I'll transcribe and post Nick Murray's list from his Rally class with the caveat that what works for trailers doesn't necessarily work for other gigs. I have Cinesamples Cinesymphony Lite, and while it's useful out of the box and I love it, it's gonna require some tweaking because some of the release samples are too loud-not a big deal, since I have the full version of Kontakt, but what Andy and others posted about attacks and releases is dead on, and especially for fast runs. This is why Cinesamples and some others provide separate but compatible sets of runs and special effects for most of their sampled orchestral instruments. Read up on MIDI Legato in all its various forms for more on this.

Almost every library has some deficiency or other; all of them will require tweaking, use of differing articulations/keyswitching and judicious use of the mod wheel and reverb and perhaps even re-mapping of some controllers to get everything sounding 'real'. The really big difference between keyboard-triggered symphonic instruments and the real deal is that keys only read the velocity of the downstroke, which sets the volume/intensity, whereas string, wind and horn players can use breath pressure/bow pressure and subtle finger and diaphragm movements to change timbre and volume after after the initial attack. That's what vibrato is 'made of', and why canned mod-wheel vibrato often just doesn't sound real/right.

[CharlesLorenMusic]

Hey guys, thanks for keeping this thread going well after my posting it. Just letting you all know I still frequently visit this and read over everyone's responses.. very helpful stuff, grateful for all the responses.

- Charles Loren

[mojobone]

I heard Mark Snow* (and I think Jerry Goldsmith and Howard Shore echoed this sentiment)
say that the biggest killer of authenticity in MIDI string performance wasn't the quality of sample
so much as the quality/nature of the attack and release. He suggested automate-finessing the attacks
to rapid crescendo where a hard attack might be and jockeying the volume swells.

Hope this adds to the already terrific stew of info and suggestion.

Best.


*composer, X-Files, among others

In his Taxi seminar, Nick Murray mentioned modulating sample start times with a controller to brighten/soften the attacks of entire phrases either after the fact or even during tracking. (realtime MIDI note entry, that is)

The info I mentioned, it turns out Paulie C. already posted it here with much additional useful info.

[joematzzie]

Hey yall. I'm trying to figure out the best way to set up reverb with orchestral midi. In the past I've had people say that my orchestra cues needed reverb although I thought I had applied enough reverb. I've watched a couple videos but I'm not quite sure about all the signal flow. Also I'm not sure how the settings on Space Designer relate to the parameters mentioned in various videos.

Right now I have 3 auxes called Near ER Mid ER and Rear ER with different amounts of early reflection and 0 reverb time (per Carl Ruessmann's vid).
The instruments are bussed, pre-fader to these 3 auxes at 0 attenuation (if I understand that correctly)
I've started using Modulation and Expression automation instead of volume automation (per Nick Murray's vid).
All my faders are at 0 for now
Then I have a 4th aux with the actual reverb tail. All 4 reverbs are a concert hall in Space Designer and this instance is set to 100% wet and 0 Pre-Delay. The 3 early reflection auxes are output to the 4th verb.
It doesn't seem to make a difference whether the dry signal coming through the 4th reverb is at 0% or 100%

Does this signal flow seem to make sense? I usually feel like I have too much dry signal. This setup is sounding better to me.

Does anyone have good materials on setting up multiple reverb instances for orchestral depth?

Thanks,

Joe

[Len911]

I'm trying to figure out the best way to set up reverb with orchestral midi. I'm not sure how the settings on Space Designer relate to the parameters mentioned in various videos. Does anyone have good materials on setting up multiple reverb instances for orchestral depth?

Thanks,

Joe

Joe, if I'm not mistaken, Space Designer is a convolution reverb. The problem with most convolution reverbs is that there is usually not more than a couple of Impulse Responses for a particular space. Vienna Mir Pro is a "Multi Impulse Response Convolution. Up to 5,000 individually recorded impulse responses for each room, depending on the size of the stage and the number of microphone positions."

In other words, one or two IR's is only one microphone position. So if a convolver only uses one or two IR's, any adjustments of the parameters is algorithmic, therefore changing any "natural" room response that is the so-called "advantage" of a convolution reverb unit over an algorithmic one, is somewhat lost. In that case, an algorithmic reverb may be a better choice as far as editing the parameters goes.

I like the Sonnox Oxford Reverb. It is an algorithmic reverb and every parameter is adjustable.

[TimWalter]

Thanks all for the information. Lots of good resource links. Thanks Paulie and Andy for all the links. I already watched the one Paulie suggested, very helpful for me at my newbie stage.
Tim