NORMALIZING UNDERSCORE

[Russell Landwehr]

NORMALIZING UNDERSCORE
I'm working on some Tension Underscore for a TAXI listing.
Usually I normalize everything I do to -0.1db. However, i got to thinking that -0.1db may "seem" too loud for underscore. So I'm normalizing to -3.0db (which would be half as loud). But now I'm second-guessing myself. If other people are normalized to 0db and mine is back to back with them, will it cause the screener (and the client) to turn up their headphones? Will it make my underscore seem less desirable because it is "too quiet"?

Russell

[Len911]

Russell, how do you know everyone normalized to 0db? What if they didn't and you did and they had to turn yours down?

What's the position of your volume knob when you listen to everyone else, about 10 o'clock?, then that's what I'd aim for. Ultimately that's what it boils down to. You can do gain staging, optimizing levels at the various amplifiers in your chain, or 'chain gaining', that might change the position of your volume knob, but it doesn't change the ratio of yours versus everyone else's.

[Russell Landwehr]

Russell, how do you know everyone normalized to 0db? What if they didn't and you did and they had to turn yours down?

What's the position of your volume knob when you listen to everyone else, about 10 o'clock?, then that's what I'd aim for. Ultimately that's what it boils down to. You can do gain staging, optimizing levels at the various amplifiers in your chain, or 'chain gaining', that might change the position of your volume knob, but it doesn't change the ratio of yours versus everyone else's.

Yeah, Len, good point. I have no idea what the others are outputting their peaks at. (I'm assuming our RMS relative to peak will all be similar)
So... would I wanna run the risk of being too loud or to quiet?
For underscore I'm instinctively thinking quieter would be better than too loud.
But true to form... I'm over-thinking

[hummingbird]

I do not normalize anything. I don't 'master' my cues. I simply provide the best most balanced mix I can. I try to use the same volume setup all the time so that every track I produce comes out the same level. So that means DAW master volume -3, Tracktion master mix 6.3, computer volume 50%, Steinberg preamp 50%. I don't receive any comments from screeners on the volume of my submissions.

Here's a tension underscore that's been forwarded.
https://soundcloud.com/vikkiflawith/deadly-fog

IMO underscore (or any track pitched to film/tv) isn't so much about volume. It's about balance. So that if you turn the track down low, you still hear all the elements. Also bear in mind most underscore is going to go underneath dialogue so you want to be careful of frequencies in the vocal range and leave space in the centre for voice.

Just my two cents. Others may say different.

[steveboy]

Hey Russell,

I don't see a benefit to normalizing below about -.1db. The bigger concern for me is mixing for a decent average loudness so there's enough dynamic range for the sense of movement and emotion in the piece but not so much that feels like it ducks in and out below dialogue. I'm a fan of the Katz metering, makes it easy to see a decent average level. Bottom line for me is I'd rather not be the quietest thing in an editor's bin. Maybe not the loudest but definitely not the quietest. Sort of the Goldilocks zone! For references you could hit a successful composer's Soundcloud and bookmark a couple of pieces for comparison a la Len's suggestion.

One more thing to consider is consistency in your own catalogue. Keeping similar loudness (not peak) on all your tracks will make the whole collection feel more unified and professional.

I'm guessing you've already thought through most of this but I thought I'd chime in.

[edmondredd]

A few things come to mind Russell,
First, normalize? Never used it to be honest, but what I understood form Rob Chiarelli's class, is to make your music/song the loudest possible.
Now when it comes to cues being used by editors, the live example, during the RR, was really an 'aha' moment:
1. All the tracks where super extra heavily compressed (by the look of the wave form, they all looked like a Sharpie straight line- apart of the drops/breaks etc)
2. The editor would listen to them extremely quickly, trying to spot few things of interest (starting points, variations, and edit points)
3. Once a cue was selected, it was dropped on the video timeline, and the volume reduced to -15dB or so (and sometimes more)

So my take on this matter is to make your tracks the loudest possible (having them well balanced of course)
HTH