Y180824EP ELECTRO-POP INSTRUMENTALS feedback request

[HayesMusic]

Would appreciate any feedback on my track for this listing.
https://soundcloud.com/michaelhayesmusi ... lectro-pop

Y180824EP ELECTRO-POP INSTRUMENTALS are needed by a heavy hitting U.K. Music Library that’s going into expansion mode. They’re looking for Mid-to-Up-Tempo Instrumentals in the ballpark of the references below:
NOTE: We recently ran this request as a TAXI Dispatch Listing (TAXI # D180719EP), but the company didn’t get enough material and asked us to run this request to our full membership list to see if we could find them even more great material. If you submitted to TAXI #D180719EP, please submit different material this time around!
“You Don't Know Me” by Jax Jones ft. RAYE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKB4cioGs98
“More Than Friends” by James Hype ft. Kelli-Leigh: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIsWmB28AdM
“All Stars” by Martin Solveig ft. ALMA: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STmLv9pLuX0

[ttully]

Hi Michael,

There is a problem with clashing beats.
I don't know the exact words to use...but the intro beat and the staccato notes are playing different rhythms.....they clash.

Then when the drums come in at at about :34... the hi hat really is out of time with the track....
IT just seems like all through out the track there are 2 styles of beat going on.....the synth notes are highly quantized and
the underlying drum track has more of a swinging feel,
You can fix this by getting the synth notes to groove more with the percussion....and fix the high hat.

Remember....this is just my opinion.... someone else may think I am completely wrong!
Thanks,
Tim

[nicotina]

Michael,

I had a similar reaction to Tim. I hear some good ideas in there, but the groove isn't there. It's especially noticeable when the harpsichord-sounding keyboard comes in around :46. AT :53 I also hear the harpsichord sound coming in really early, like you expect it on the "4" and it's a half-beat early. At 1:18 it sounds like you took two different drum loops that are out of synch and overlayed them. I would make sure you get everything lining up on the grid- I know they say it's better to use your ears rather then eyes, but if you can't hear that this isn't grooving, you might need to use your eyes until you can learn to hear that.

Sorry to be critical- nothing wrong with your melodies or ideas. But this is dance music, so groove is more important then anything else.

Best,

Vince

[markhimley]

Hey Michael thanks again for pm'ing me about this! Happy to give my .02

Disclaimer though - this is a genre I'm not familiar with at all and this was my first time hearing the references, so your mileage may vary. Hopefully you'll get some additional feedback from other members who know this stuff better than I do! I'll do my best to give you some constructive feedback though.

That being said. I listened to your track, then the references, then your track again several times.

First thing I noticed, like the comments above, was some funkiness happening in the rhythms. It doesn't feel tight - there's some definite clashing there.

First thing I looked for after that was tempo, which you hit right on the head. Your track as well as the ala's all sit right around 124 bpm. A lot of these sub genres of edm are pretty specific about bpm. To me, this sounds more like House music than anything (especially the Jax Jones and James Hype tracks), just slowed down a tiny bit.

I really dig the riff that starts the track, but I think a slightly better sound could be used. It could be a bit closer to the plucky, sort of hollow House bass sound used in the first 2 ala's. Also to my ears something funky is happening with the reverb on that synth - can't quite put my finger on it, but it's sticking out to me in a not-so-great way. Like it might be getting too much compression or limiting maybe? It's only super obvious in the first section when it's by itself.

Your hi hat pattern - it doesn't really fit the vibe of the ala's. Take a listen to the first 2 again especially, and you'll notice they have a very House-esque hat pattern. Really emphasizing the off beats with a ride. That gives a very distinct vibe and forward momentum, where your hat pattern emphasizes the downbeats instead. The third ala doesn't have the strong up-beat emphasis, but in cases like this where I'm trying a new genre I think it's always best to go with the majority (2 ala's vs 1)

Dig the claps, those seem spot on.

I feel like the first half of the cue is really missing some melodic elements. The riff you have, if you follow the first 2 ala's, serves more as a bassline than a melody. Albeit a melodic bassline, but still a bassline. We need some melodic elements as well. Sadly if an editor/supervisor has to wait until halfway thru a cue to hear a melody.. well, they won't listen that long to even hear it. Gotta catch their attention quickly. Funny enough, editors will often use a no-melody version of your cue that will essentially be something like this, but it's best to give them options and make sure you have some strong melodic content that will catch their ears initially.

Something you could maybe try for the melodic content - something like the vocal chops in the Jax Jones track around 2:40. Nothing too frenetic or busy, but just some nice melodic content that will sit under dialogue nicely and work with a scene, and that sort of sound gets used like crazy. Plus this will help you out later in the cue to continue to build interest and keep it climaxing - after you introduce the pluck, you could bring back the vocal chops later for the final section (at 1:55) to really bring things to a strong finish and keep building and adding layers.

Again this is a totally new genre for me so take it with a grain of salt, but this is how I approach the listings and briefs that I get from pubs when it's a new style/genre. Hope that is helpful in some way!!

[HayesMusic]

Everyone thanks! I agree with everything you all said. It really helps to get some fresh ears. Will get to work tonight and make some changes.

Michael

[HayesMusic]

OMG! Can’t believe how crappy the first version or the song was that I asked for input on; but, I’m so thankful I did. No one called it crappy, those are my words after sitting down to rework it last night. No hurt feeling ever, please always be frank.

Everyone was correct there was no good groove. My rhythms were all over the place and just can’t believe I didn’t realize it, maybe I could submit the first version for an experimental listing. Guess I was focusing too much on the bass line. The bass line was quantize but certain note positions were nudged to get the feel I had when playing. So the bass line is deliberate. Then tried to match other elements to that timing and really did a bad job. Last night I almost gave up. But this morning I realized I was closer than thought so a couple more hours removing/replacing and now I’m not embarrassed. Removing a lot of the crap helped I think.

Mark, Thanks for the recommendations on the intro and getting to the melody quicker. Just got a review on another song and the comment was made.

Here is the new version:
https://soundcloud.com/michaelhayesmusi ... -version-6

Here is the old crappy version:
https://soundcloud.com/michaelhayesmusi ... lectro-pop

[ttully]

Hey Michael,

Good job fixing it!!!!
Right between 6 and 7 seconds into the track it may still be a slight bit off (the pluck synth is not quite with the beat for 2 notes)...
But overall it is WAY WAY better!


Sometimes you have heard a track so many times...you get used to it, and cannot hear what is wrong.
What I do many times....is NOT listen for a day or 2 and then listen.....that really lets the bad stuff show up!

Again, my 2 cents,
Tim

[andygabrys]

Cool.

Good comments above.

The main issue with your track is its living in a 2 against 3 world.

the beat is based on 8th and 16th subdivisions or based on 2.

The pluck is based on 3 - triplets. If its not quantized already, then it is played leaning more towards multiple of 3 (triplets).

That's what gives it a slightly afro-beat 6/8 feel. Now if this were Afro-beat, (or Afro-beats if you think more modern) then yeah, rock that 6/8 feel.......

Otherwise - re-quantize the pluck and everything else that is in the same time zone with a 16th note subdivision.

[ttully]

Yea.......what Andy said!!!!

Andy...are you talking about the 1st or 2nd version?
If it's the 1st one....I believe you hit the nail on the head.

The 2nd one seems much more in the pocket to me......

Tim

[andygabrys]

I have to admit I think I listened to the second one but I should re-listen.