White Noise, Realism, and Adapting...

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White Noise, Realism, and Adapting...

Post by AudiniAudio » Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:59 pm

I got out my trusty little DR-1 hand held recorder and went to the Killer Tracks and Epidemic Sound libraries then recorded the first 10 or 15 tracks which appear under Hip hop, Bhangra (think aging South Indians in white polyester dress pants with stomachs of a somewhat decadent lifestyle), and then Bollywood (think bad Elvis movies using an "Arabic" scale where Indian backup singers singing in Hindi jump out from behind the bushes in the middle of a busy street) because those are the things I either like or am good at (in my opinion). No accounting for why God does this to people like me. ;)

Actually, my favorite music is Allan Holdsworth (probably no market), and then there's World Music. I especially like the Albums Sahara Lounge and Asian Groove from Putumayo which pulled together the best of the Asian Underground, Eastern Uprising, Outcaste, Bollywood Funk, Bollywood Break, Bombay Jazz, and Asian Dub scenes. People don't really make all these distinctions anymore. It's just World, Bhangra, or Bollywood categories seems to me in the music libraries now. World often appears to mean South American or Chinese. Bhangra and Bollywood look like they're almost fused together to be the same thing.

People don't make the distinctions between Asian Underground and Eastern Uprising anymore probably because those club scenes are completely obsolete. Since the more marketable chillout, ambient, and goa trance genres blend cultures in a way where it doesn't matter where the music came from or who made it, that kind of killed the (South) Asian Underground. Timbaland and DJ Quick did appropriate/bring to a different audience some elements of this music from the UK diaspora Indians so it still seems to be a "thing" like in travel documentaries covering India.

I don't know why I'm writing all this except that I just like hanging out with you guys and I'm kind of blogging my experience of trying to get a handle on what I can do for the libraries. I'm going to study the TV cues I got from Killer Tracks and Epidemic so I can know better how cues like this are put together.

Seems to be doable but some of the people making this stuff have access to real Urdu speaking and Hindi speaking vocalists, real Sarod players, etc...

A bit hard to compete with that even with the best sound libraries and plugins (which I pretty much have) not that it's impossible.

I saw an article saying to make something sound more real to add a barely perceptible amount of white noise to a digital track. I think they mean to synthesized sound not live instruments sampled in a studio but I could be wrong. What do you all think?

They also said to pan 10-20% not synced with the tempo. They mentioned to modulate the volume 10% with tremolo with the L/R phase set to 0. They said to alter the attack and the decay as well. They said to assign velocities to a low pass filter cutoff and automate the filter around only a couple of HZ. Seems like a lot of work. Increase the track volume by half a decibel on the arrival of the chorus. Use tape simulation with wow and flutter. Especially move high hats from the grid, and tape saturation, eq shelviing, or miltuband compression. Dang that's a lot of work.

Any of this advice seem more important than the others? I'm sure moving the high hat hits from the grid will work if maybe one keeps the downbeat sacrsanct at least. Or is this really the best practice for the emulating the realism factor?

I know it's a lot of questions but I've got one more. One article in response to the question of which style makes the most money said not to focus on that and just do the one/ones you love but I'm not sure that's gonna fly in my case. Even if I try to segue over to Hip Hop, 80s and 90s hip hop is EXTREMELY different from 2021. I think I should adapt yes?

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Re: White Noise, Realism, and Adapting...

Post by superblonde » Sat Jun 12, 2021 10:23 pm

If I want to study tracks, I re-route the audio straight into Reaper DAW and then drop markers and create regions everywhere per track for the song form. Then add blank tracks as MIDI instruments and drop notes to match the original track. Handheld recorder and paper is great but.... it is the 2020's now.

I saw Allan Holdsworth's last show (unfortunately, no one knew it was his last of course ). He definitely has strong fans but yes, 'no market' and I doubt that aspect of his music made him happy. I believe there must be some way to find ways to incorporate sophistication as well as 'broad appeal' into music. Zappa did it, though I am not a Zappa fan at all (for specific musical taste reasons, like, I have good taste and Zappa had none).

It sounds to me like some hip hop incorporates or could incorporate random world instruments without caring or knowing about the origin. The artists find a sound sample they like and use it (repetitively.. and repetitively.. and repetitively.. and). They don't care what the instrument is, as long as the lick cuts through the beat and the vocal and fits on the grid.
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Re: White Noise, Realism, and Adapting...

Post by cosmicdolphin » Sun Jun 13, 2021 2:15 am

Not all audio interfaces have the necessary loopback feature to capture audio from a website straight into your DAW, if you don't have one you can use something like Chrome Audio Capture to a grab a good quality MP3 of whatever you're listening to. There are websites that will allow you to rip a reference track straight to an MP3 or Wav from a Youtube URL too. No need to use a handheld recorder.

I've never added white noise to anything to try and make it sound more real, I think the way you play, arrange , mix and master is all part of the recipe - learn the basics..not magic "tricks". " high hats from the grid, and tape saturation, eq shelving, or multiband compression. " are all pretty standard mix tools.

As for music styles you should be able to see from your searches on LIbrary websites what is most / least popular and where the bar is. Whilst it's good to be able work in a niche if you are very good at it you might be waiting a long time to get any placements. My advice is to try new genres for the current listings and if you made Hip Hop in the 80s & 90s it shouldn't be a huge stretch to update yourself to 2020's. Hip Hop get used a ton and there are many variants so you could probably infuse it with some world music for example and make a crossover genre.

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Re: White Noise, Realism, and Adapting...

Post by AudiniAudio » Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:37 am

My old version of Cubase used to have loop back. But my new computer will NEVER speak to the internet again. Everything works perfectly and we're going to keep it that way.

As for hip hop, it's popular and yes, shouldn't be too difficult to transition from 90's to 20's.

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Re: White Noise, Realism, and Adapting...

Post by cosmicdolphin » Sun Jun 13, 2021 9:12 am

AudiniAudio wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:37 am
My old version of Cubase used to have loop back.
The loopback function is usually part of the interface audio driver and not the DAW,
AudiniAudio wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:37 am
But my new computer will NEVER speak to the internet again. Everything works perfectly and we're going to keep it that way.
Wow that would be a massive PITA to me, even just the logistics of delivering the final mixes and stems to libraries. Some plugins I have don't even work at all unless they have a live internet connection, never mind receiving DAW & Plugin updates, pulling in reference tracks online, following along with Youtube tutorials, using online sample services like Splice or LoopCloud and putting tracks on SoundCloud and Tunesat. Not having an internet connection on the studio PC would be like chopping a limb off.

I think the benefits far outweigh any perceived dangers, what do you think will happen ?

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Re: White Noise, Realism, and Adapting...

Post by superblonde » Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:17 am

There is an audio driver which does software loopback of any device to any device. It is open source and has both PC and Mac versions. I forget the name because I don't use it but it can be found easily. (Maybe it is called JACK ?) On Mac, I use Soundflower for internal audio loopback, it works great and is an older open source driver. On Mac I create an aggregate device which has multiple drivers inside it as many-ins/many-outs and select that device in Reaper which allows routing audio from anything to anything. These drivers do not require audio interface to do the loopback.

I will never use a PC again but if I had no choice I would also be very tempted to 'physically unplug' it from the internet because Windows has so many internal problems which corrupts the system over time. The company built it that way.
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Re: White Noise, Realism, and Adapting...

Post by cosmicdolphin » Sun Jun 13, 2021 12:16 pm

superblonde wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:17 am
I will never use a PC again but if I had no choice I would also be very tempted to 'physically unplug' it from the internet because Windows has so many internal problems which corrupts the system over time. The company built it that way.
Not really my experience since Win 7 , ran the studio PC constantly connected for about 10 years...no issue ...not had any these first couple of years on Win 10

We have Macs as well

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Re: White Noise, Realism, and Adapting...

Post by AudiniAudio » Tue Jun 15, 2021 5:45 pm

Hi Cosmic Dolphin,
I didn't know loopback had that specific of a meaning. All I know is when I had Cubase before I could record audio to it but the second version I had couldn't. I had not gotten that far into the manuals to know the reason or if it was possible to route the sound at all. Don't really care. We all work in a different way. This is mine.

HI Superblonde, I studied the tracks without rerouting. Amazing! Yes, hiphop does incorporate anything at all. I've heard world music more than once incorporated. I thought the soundtrack for Fast and Furious (I) was interesting.

Back again at the Cosmic Dolphin. As far as what could happen to my laptop having a connection. I have no intention of uploading more and more and more. I have enough already. I ended up with Omnisphere, Waves, Nexus, Ilya Efimov guitars and basses, Noire pianos, Amadeus symphonic library, Ethno World 6 Instruments and Voices, Guitar Rig 6, Ambiosonics, Fab Filter, Ample Guitar, Kontakt, Loop Mash, Prologue, and a Balinese Gamelan etc... Better than anything the Beatles ever had. I think there may even be a kitchen sink around here somewhere. I have enough to keep me busy for the next few updates at least. I'm not running a high end studio for hire so don't need the latest dodad, dohickey, thingamajig, or watchamacallit.

Another thing that can happen is; one of the softwares update in a way that causes it not to work, or you just waste your time dealing with unnecessary updates.

If one of these need a connection to work either I'm not using it, or I'm using it on my other computer. If what you have already does the work you need, why waste time making it get stuff you probably won't use or at least don't really need?

Another problem is computer updates which cause your computer to slow down and eventually not work at all. That's not something that might happen, that's what will happen for a certainty eventually. You may not have had any problems for 10 years but I have that problem of running really slow now with my Toshiba.

Also just turning on your firewall is not much protection especially since I live in Indonesia, the hacker hub of the universe. One wrong click and it's time to erase your hard drive and reinstall your entire massively corrupted studio. Sure nothing behind your firewall has been affected BUT EVERYTHING ELSE HAS. I'll pass.

I also can pull in reference tracks but first they're being downloaded on my other computer, THEN moved into my DAW. You work how you want. Glad you haven't had any trouble.

I easily watch YouTube and put tracks on Soundclick, and Soundcloud; WITH MY OTHER COMPUTER!!!

So let's get down to business and make some tracks.

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Re: White Noise, Realism, and Adapting...

Post by cosmicdolphin » Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:15 am

AudiniAudio wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 5:45 pm
I have no intention of uploading more and more and more.
I am talking about uploading final files to music libraries..typical folder sizes are 500mb - 1gb

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Re: White Noise, Realism, and Adapting...

Post by AudiniAudio » Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:00 pm

It takes about 1 minute to transfer 1gb to my external SSD drive and probably just as long to go direct to my other computer. A minor inconvenience. Hey look. I made a funny. Minor Inconvenience in the key of A minor. ;) :D :P :lol: :ugeek:

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