2020's Panel with Hookman "Songwriting Camps"

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2020's Panel with Hookman "Songwriting Camps"

Post by superblonde » Mon Jul 05, 2021 8:31 pm

I've rewatched this amazing panel with Hookman several times.

(edit to simplify)

I plan to start a songwriter day with some locals. Could anyone share their experience with "writing in the same room".
Last edited by superblonde on Thu Jul 08, 2021 3:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2020's Panel with Hookman "Songwriting Camps"

Post by superblonde » Thu Jul 08, 2021 10:27 am

Alright, everybody's mum on songwriting camps, here are a few uneventful prior experiences with attempting to get local songwriting groups going.


(edit to simplify, see above post)


I believe Hookman has solid & excellent advice in this panel but I would like to hear a success story, more details the better.
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Re: 2020's Panel with Hookman "Songwriting Camps"

Post by cosmicdolphin » Thu Jul 08, 2021 12:42 pm

superblonde wrote:
Thu Jul 08, 2021 10:27 am
Repeated feedback on my fully-notated song sheets was, "don't write all these parts out because the musicians don't want to play bass or drums or guitar licks which are already written out."
Exactly.

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Re: 2020's Panel with Hookman "Songwriting Camps"

Post by superblonde » Thu Jul 08, 2021 12:49 pm

I don't see much difference between handing out a fully notated original song vs a player learning a cover song note-for-note especially if it's a musician who typically learns & plays blues/rock/pop cover songs 'exactly like the album'. I might as well say "Hey let's cover this b-side track from Journey" as a purposeful lie and hand out sheets of my original. Actually the local 1-man-band artists do that, they will start an original with intro & verse of a typical Journey hit and then segue into their original song as 2nd verse to the end, essentially to fool the audience into paying attention (or fool the bar manager?). And when I say "hand out a song" I mean the full easy-to-learn assortment of sheet music, lyric sheet, tab, mixed track, and isolated tracks, it is even easier than learning a band's album hit by ear.
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Re: 2020's Panel with Hookman "Songwriting Camps"

Post by cosmicdolphin » Thu Jul 08, 2021 1:01 pm

superblonde wrote:
Thu Jul 08, 2021 12:49 pm
I don't see much difference between handing out a fully notated original song vs a player learning a cover song note-for-note especially if it's a musician who typically learns & plays blues/rock/pop cover songs 'exactly like the album'.
Some key differences.

1. Many of them will only play by ear and learn by rote

2. They will only learn to cover the songs they like / admire.

3. Being that that prescriptive in a songwriting situation would be a complete buzzkill for me and I suspect many others

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Re: 2020's Panel with Hookman "Songwriting Camps"

Post by superblonde » Thu Jul 08, 2021 3:00 pm

That is the original question.
" prescriptive in a songwriting situation would be a complete buzzkill " Ok....

What is the result of, whatever phrase to describe it, a 'songwriting situation'. Is it a lead sheet. Is it a page of lyrics. Is it a page of lyrics with melody on staff. Is it a page of lyrics with chords written over top. Is it a 4-bar beat loop with lyrics written over top. Is it a ProTools session with a bunch of glued re-takes of a sung vocal melody over a beat. Or .... what. (Some of these are not PRO-recognized as 'songs', but, whatever) Are musicians allergic to paper.
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Re: 2020's Panel with Hookman "Songwriting Camps"

Post by superblonde » Thu Jul 08, 2021 10:58 pm

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Re: 2020's Panel with Hookman "Songwriting Camps"

Post by cosmicdolphin » Fri Jul 09, 2021 12:40 am

superblonde wrote:
Thu Jul 08, 2021 3:00 pm
What is the result of, whatever phrase to describe it, a 'songwriting situation'. Is it a lead sheet. Is it a page of lyrics. Is it a page of lyrics with melody on staff. Is it a page of lyrics with chords written over top. Is it a 4-bar beat loop with lyrics written over top. Is it a ProTools session with a bunch of glued re-takes of a sung vocal melody over a beat. Or .... what. (Some of these are not PRO-recognized as 'songs', but, whatever) Are musicians allergic to paper.
For me it's usually a handwritten lyric sheet with chords over the top combined with some sort of guide recording. Basic chords + vocal onto a Zoom recorder , phone app or actually into the DAW if it relies on a beat.

There are mini studio Apps for phones these days , if I used Bandlab to rough out the song with chords and loops and record a guide vocal it can be stored in the cloud and opened up in my DAW ( Cakewalk ) to work on properly.

The best workflow is the one that works for you but I've never known anyone write music onto a staff that I've written a song with. Not that I would be able to read it. It seems a bit pointless.

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Re: 2020's Panel with Hookman "Songwriting Camps"

Post by superblonde » Fri Jul 09, 2021 12:44 pm

That is good info. I'll need to get specific in my pitch for the type of camp I want.
Personality test, lol

https://youtu.be/13Fp7q4GVuM
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Re: 2020's Panel with Hookman "Songwriting Camps"

Post by superblonde » Wed Aug 04, 2021 1:29 pm

The DAW is the chart. Believe musicians don't use charts? It is the piano roll and the DAW project.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UC-fkdVI5QI

Hip hop does not have much if any melody and rarely harmony. So there's no need to notate on a chart what doesnt exist. In other genres, musicians are like, "today's music is simple..just three chords.. sometimes wish it could be more complex but.. we always stick to three or four chords" well it's gonna be hard to get off the simple train if refusing to write something out. Vocalists will not be able to ac hoc remember to hit the desired 7th on an anacrusis without writing it out and doing a bit of repetitive practice first. I'm not going down the "lets not write it out" road again of working with others who forget what was decided five minutes ago and start re-arguing the previous consensus.. or the other road of meeting up then the others start out by hitting a bong then playing completely off rhythm..

So far I had a few local responses to a songwriting camp post but not really pursuing the in-person thing for at least another month until LA's numbers clear up.

Songland was in Temecula? How quirky..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEmSbVzRJ-U

Reading lyrics off a cellphone while singing? omg No.

I would love to hear Pat Pattison's perspective on songwriting camps.
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