Opinions Please! This is for a Public Domain Trailer

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Re: Opinions Please! This is for a Public Domain Trailer

Post by Stubee » Mon Aug 02, 2021 1:13 pm

irthlingz wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:41 pm
Stubee wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 2:36 pm
I find it very difficult to time the harmonies when I'm recording.
I know there is a way in Logic Pro to line them up but I haven't figured out how to do that yet. Maybe I'll see if there is a video on Youtube that explains how to do it.
You could start watching this one at around 2:30.

HTH

===
Michael
IrthlingZ, this is fantastic!! It was easier than I thought. I reposted the song with the flextime changes. It looked like everything lined up in Logic.
I think that this version isn't going to be right for the listing but I will keep it for future listing. I'm going to redo it in E minor and try to find some better
synth samples as Nicotina suggested. Now, that I know how to use flextime, thanks to you, I will use it on all my projects. Do you think I need autotune also
or would that mess things up?

-Stu

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Re: Opinions Please! This is for a Public Domain Trailer

Post by Telefunkin » Mon Aug 02, 2021 3:26 pm

Stubee wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 2:36 pm
Now, that I know how to use flextime, thanks to you, I will use it on all my projects. Do you think I need autotune also
or would that mess things up?
Just be careful. Remember what Joe Gilder says.... GIRATS :)
By all means use tools and technology where necessary, but try not to rely on them. Better to use them sparingly and wisely, otherwise they'll be detectable and you'll risk spoiling the authentic natural sound and credibility that you're working hard to achieve. Slight timing discrepancies in a reasonably in-tune vocal will almost always be preferable to an over-processed vocal that's perfectly in time and in-tune but no longer sounds natural. Therefore, your time is better spent re-recording the vocal until its as good as you can get it, rather than battling with correction software. Just my 2c.
Graham (UK). Still composing a little faster than decomposing.

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Re: Opinions Please! This is for a Public Domain Trailer

Post by Stubee » Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:07 am

Wise advice Telefunkin. I'm glad that I've been enlightened about this tool. I guess as with all new toys, the child wants to play with it all day.
I have to learn how to play it like an instrument and use it wisely. Thank you for all of the checks and balances. You guys are amazing!!

-Stu

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Re: Opinions Please! This is for a Public Domain Trailer

Post by superblonde » Tue Aug 03, 2021 10:05 am

Stubee wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 2:36 pm
I find it very difficult to time the harmonies when I'm recording.
I know there is a way in Logic Pro to line them up but I haven't figured out how to do that yet.
Dont do it in Logic or other DAW. Yes it can be done but it shouldn't be done. The answer is simply practice practice practice. Rehearse by singing along to various different combination of acappela with a metronome, vs various live instrument tracks, record all these multiple complete takes per day for practice review and zoom in on the tightness of each take each day to investigate the bad timings, and watch it improve over time. It's not a magic bullet solution "lemme just move it around in the DAW" which doesnt result in personal growth, it might take 2 months of daily practice but then in the future all vocals on all songs will be much, much tighter performances. Although in comparison there's documentary videos of Billie Eillish explaining that she recorded every individual word, and even every individual "huh" breath, 100 to 300 times each and compared all of them to pick the best take and so on....that is false economy.
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Re: Opinions Please! This is for a Public Domain Trailer

Post by Joseph » Tue Aug 03, 2021 12:02 pm

Stubee wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 2:29 pm
edmondredd wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 2:07 pm
Hey Stu! my 2 cents! Instrumentation is key here. Choosing the right palette of sounds is what makes it "epic". Next thing I'll look into is the arrangement: usually, not always, tracks are in a minor key. So just like Vulpine's version in the refs, try to make it extremely sad, and dramatic.
Mix will definitely help make it on parr with other cinematic trailer production, but I guess there are other major things to worry about before that.
Listen a lot to the references, and check other industry releases, especially with "classical" trailerized music for you to get a better idea!
Hope that helps, and good luck with that one.
I tried using a minor key but I could make it work because these public domain songs that were written 100+ years ago seem to all seem to not translate well into minor keys. Keep on the Sunny Side is so happy and uplifting that it's hard to make it sad and believable at the same time. Although, the Star Spangle Banner did translate well for the sample. I'll give the sample another listen. If I can't get it fixed for this go 'round I will definitely use your feedback on the next trailer that I attempt. Much appreciated.

Thank you,
Stu

The first thing that jumps out at me is the very first sound. It's very outdated to me. I would first look at updating sounds or using what you have, but in a different way. Play around with some fx. Listen to a lot of current trailer music and try to find the songs used in those trailers, but instrumental only.

As far as changing key, I tried playing yours in C# minor to keep the melody basically the same and I thought it had real potential. I think you may be too familiar with this song so it's hard for you to let go of what you're used to hearing. Singing about staying on the sunny side of life while on top of mostly minor chords has a cool character to it. It sounds like the singer is warning the listener rather than encouraging.

I also think it could work in a major key, but it needs to build a lot more and get very intense. Start the song at a whisper or strained/hushed singing. Add harmonies later. Add some pulses, drums, sound design, risers; all that good stuff to give more life to it. At the very least, some crashes and whooshes to accent every (or every other) bar towards the end.

Regards,

Joseph

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Re: Opinions Please! This is for a Public Domain Trailer

Post by edmondredd » Tue Aug 03, 2021 2:23 pm

Joseph wrote:
Tue Aug 03, 2021 12:02 pm
Stubee wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 2:29 pm
edmondredd wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 2:07 pm
Hey Stu! my 2 cents! Instrumentation is key here. Choosing the right palette of sounds is what makes it "epic". Next thing I'll look into is the arrangement: usually, not always, tracks are in a minor key. So just like Vulpine's version in the refs, try to make it extremely sad, and dramatic.
Mix will definitely help make it on parr with other cinematic trailer production, but I guess there are other major things to worry about before that.
Listen a lot to the references, and check other industry releases, especially with "classical" trailerized music for you to get a better idea!
Hope that helps, and good luck with that one.
I tried using a minor key but I could make it work because these public domain songs that were written 100+ years ago seem to all seem to not translate well into minor keys. Keep on the Sunny Side is so happy and uplifting that it's hard to make it sad and believable at the same time. Although, the Star Spangle Banner did translate well for the sample. I'll give the sample another listen. If I can't get it fixed for this go 'round I will definitely use your feedback on the next trailer that I attempt. Much appreciated.

Thank you,
Stu

The first thing that jumps out at me is the very first sound. It's very outdated to me. I would first look at updating sounds or using what you have, but in a different way. Play around with some fx. Listen to a lot of current trailer music and try to find the songs used in those trailers, but instrumental only.

As far as changing key, I tried playing yours in C# minor to keep the melody basically the same and I thought it had real potential. I think you may be too familiar with this song so it's hard for you to let go of what you're used to hearing. Singing about staying on the sunny side of life while on top of mostly minor chords has a cool character to it. It sounds like the singer is warning the listener rather than encouraging.

I also think it could work in a major key, but it needs to build a lot more and get very intense. Start the song at a whisper or strained/hushed singing. Add harmonies later. Add some pulses, drums, sound design, risers; all that good stuff to give more life to it. At the very least, some crashes and whooshes to accent every (or every other) bar towards the end.

Regards,

Joseph
Joseph, you beat it me to it. I wanted to suggest moving to the relative minor of the original root key, and try this sort of transposition.
edmond redd
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Re: Opinions Please! This is for a Public Domain Trailer

Post by Stubee » Wed Aug 04, 2021 1:43 pm

https://www.taxi.com/members/V2G7ZzSiTs ... de-of-life

I have re-invented this track. I would like a sanity check so I know if I've made it better or worse. I think it's more in line with the Trailer sample
in the posting but I'm not 100% sure. My ears are Burned out from listening to it too many time so I'm guessing that the mix is not there yet.
If any of you would be able to review it I would be very appreciative.

Thank you, Stu

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Re: Opinions Please! This is for a Public Domain Trailer

Post by superblonde » Wed Aug 04, 2021 7:47 pm

Vocal is off pitch. Also I wonder if the advice about "no lengthy intros, gotta grab em within first 5 seconds" applies here.

Artistically it is interesting. By interesting I mean it's neat. I wonder if there is an instrument missing. Maybe if it had a flute or oboe? Obviously you're trying to keep it thin and subtle but some woodwind along with the vocal could make it seem much sadder or creepier.
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Re: Opinions Please! This is for a Public Domain Trailer

Post by Stubee » Wed Aug 04, 2021 9:59 pm

superblonde wrote:
Wed Aug 04, 2021 7:47 pm
Vocal is off pitch. Also I wonder if the advice about "no lengthy intros, gotta grab em within first 5 seconds" applies here.

Artistically it is interesting. By interesting I mean it's neat. I wonder if there is an instrument missing. Maybe if it had a flute or oboe? Obviously you're trying to keep it thin and subtle but some woodwind along with the vocal could make it seem much sadder or creepier.
I can try autotune but I wonder if It will lose the human feel if I do. The original version had a shorter intro but I lengthened by 2 measures to match the sample in the posting.
I'll experiment with a flute, oboe or maybe a clarinet to see if that adds some more sadness,

Thanks Superblonde!

-Stu

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Re: Opinions Please! This is for a Public Domain Trailer

Post by Stubee » Wed Aug 04, 2021 10:50 pm

Superblonde, that was great advise. I added the flute and it made a huge difference. I also ran both vocal tracks thru autotune.
I'm not sure if the mix is right yet. Do you think the recording is better? any other suggestions?

https://www.taxi.com/members/V2G7ZzSiTs ... de-of-life



Thank you,
Stu

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