Question for hiring Composer / Performer

[Casey H]

Mark is correct that from a profit standpoint, paying for all your tracks is a pretty much impossible way to be in the black. And, for good reasons, most want to get ahead financially, not lose money.

That being said, if you are more like me (I'm a rare bird) and are OK with losing money for the pleasure of hearing your creations on TV, that changes the picture. But just know what you are getting into and have realistic expectations. You can have hundreds of songs/cues in libraries and actual placements will only come now and then. Some pay decently, many not so much so. And it takes many years to build up enough momentum to be bringing in significant income (e.g. 5 figures or more).

Again, nothing is right or wrong. It's what works for you.

[eaglerockhills]

I agree to learn myself, but this is the way I like to learn. By having someone directly apply their knowledge to exactly what I want to do.

I like that because sometimes when I take a course the teacher is giving great info, but it doesn't always translate to what I want to do style wise.

I do compose and write myself. I've got Logic and other DAWs and I do play instruments. But looking for someone better than me.

In that case I would say spend the money on training to get better yourself.

Aside from all the great practical points Graham outlined above, you need hundreds of cues in libraries to get anywhere and IMHO you just wouldn't get any ROI as only a small % of your catalogue will ever get used.

My current placement rate is around 14% on a sample size of 450 signed cues but the average cue earns less than you'd likely have to pay someone else to make it , so even if you had 100% placement rate you'd still be losing a ton of money.

Mark

[eaglerockhills]

I really want to try out the peer to peer, seems like a great and active Forum to learn from!

Thank you very much for the responses. I would be giving a rough draft idea, but that idea would need to be fleshed out with someone more versed in this style of music.

I do compose and write myself. I've got Logic and other DAWs and I do play instruments. But looking for someone better than me.

I would be PAYING them Money upfront in a "work for hire" agreement for them to bring in their expertise.

The thing I wonder is, where does it become a Co-write? Where is that line?

I would want to be fair being a musician / writer myself. But at the same time if I'm paying for it, where is that line drawn between WFH and a co-write?

I myself used to be in a work for hire situation, where anything I wrote with that music artist would be considered their songs solely, because I was getting paid upfront. I was fine with it.

I did have to go into the studio to perform play guitar and other instruments. There were changes to what we wrote originally, but I was paid for my time in the studio as well.

There is no 'line', it's totally up to you.

In this situation I'd suggest co-writing rather than work for hire. I agree with the suggestion above re investing in learning your craft. There are many many good free youtube channels on composition and production. There are also courses through Cinematic Composing, Evenant or Thinkspace that might assist you. You could also hire a good producer to tutor you in producing broadcast quality. That's assuming you are composing cues effectively (that's an art in itself).

To be honest I learned a great deal right here on this forum, by listening to tracks in Peer to Peer and reading the comments on them, posting my own and asking for feedback / help, and from the screeners who had to listen to my fledgling compositions. It took me three years of trying to get my first forward because I had to a) have good VSTs or record cleanly, b) understand how to use those good VSTs (expression, humanizing), c) compose effectively (melody, harmony, counterpoint, development, edit points, etc), d) produce a good clean mix that would be considered broadcast quality.

[eaglerockhills]

I agree, from a business model standpoint it would be expensive to hire every time I did a track or cue. But for some it's worth the investment to Learn things I don't know.

I learn quick, but like to apply real life lessons to the typenod music I like. Things I want are not always found on YouTube

Mark is correct that from a profit standpoint, paying for all your tracks is a pretty much impossible way to be in the black. And, for good reasons, most want to get ahead financially, not lose money.

That being said, if you are more like me (I'm a rare bird) and are OK with losing money for the pleasure of hearing your creations on TV, that changes the picture. But just know what you are getting into and have realistic expectations. You can have hundreds of songs/cues in libraries and actual placements will only come now and then. Some pay decently, many not so much so. And it takes many years to build up enough momentum to be bringing in significant income (e.g. 5 figures or more).

Again, nothing is right or wrong. It's what works for you.

[funsongs]

Reads to me like more of a 'commissioned' work, if the other party is doing the lion's share of the creative & production components.
I'd be curious - should Casey have some clarity & advice - how this pans out.
Good luck; and interesting thread.

I'm also curious - among your own writing/playing/recording endeavors, has any of that been a 'toplining project' -
either you putting lyric & melody to a completed piece of music by someone else?
OR - vice-versa: someone writing lyric & vocal melody to your composition?

Good luck with your 'concept'.

[eaglerockhills]

Sorry I missed this! I've been out for a while, between the Holidays and the rain in Los Angeles.

I have done Top Lining before and had a great outcome from that. For example many times I've done my songs doing the writing and production all in house. Just doing all the parts myself.

Sometimes I like it, many times I feel like there is something missing and it's hard to say what that is. Just it's not complete or it feels kind of like 75% there, but not quite enough to be Exciting. For me exciting would be enough for me be excited to play the song for someone else.

I've taken tracks that others have made, been very inspired by it and top lined those tracks into a song. This is a great way of collaborating for me. I also tend to learn from those experiences. Every writer and producer has their own Feel that is unique that enables you to go somewhere you might not have been able to do other wise.

Reads to me like more of a 'commissioned' work, if the other party is doing the lion's share of the creative & production components.
I'd be curious - should Casey have some clarity & advice - how this pans out.
Good luck; and interesting thread.

I'm also curious - among your own writing/playing/recording endeavors, has any of that been a 'toplining project' -
either you putting lyric & melody to a completed piece of music by someone else?
OR - vice-versa: someone writing lyric & vocal melody to your composition?

Good luck with your 'concept'.