Feedback on INDIE/FOLK Instrumental

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Telefunkin
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Re: Feedback on INDIE/FOLK Instrumental

Post by Telefunkin » Sat Jul 23, 2022 8:58 am

Hi Brian, I know you're trying, and I'm also trying to help and not just be 'on your case' :).

When I listen now I hear the trem guitar parts very dry and upfront (in my face), and everything else 50 ft away in the background and barely present, so it doesn't work as a mix that shows off your piece of music. At least the simpler arrangement should help avoid a cluttered mix and parts competing for attention.

Can I suggest that you find some music that you like of a similar style, and drop a version of it in your DAW alongside your track, so you can switch between the two? If you can do that you'll be able to compare what's going on more easily. When you listen to the ref track you'll hear some parts (eg voice. lead instruments) take centre stage, but they'll be supported by all the other instruments. Its important to grasp that concept of everything playing not only at the same time but in sympathy with each other and in the same space. You can hear everything that everybody is doing, even if some players are a little quieter or slightly further back in the mix than others. If you can't hear them then they might as well not be there.

The sense of space or ambience comes from the recording or more likely from adding reverb. Without that the instruments can sound quite false. You certainly don't have to bury things in reverb, but its amazing what a very small amount of room reverb can do to lend a more natural sound to things. Try a little on the trem guitars. Not too much or it will sit them back too far. thyen one by one bring the levels up on all the rest of the instruments until they sound like they're on the same stage or in the same room as the lead parts, but spread them across the stereo in a balanced way and also add a tiny touch more of the same reverb to those too. Now keep swapping between your track and the reference track until you get some sense of things being in similar balance and that your mix is working (everything audible, supporting the lead, but not competing, and nothing jumping out or dominating).

That's just a very rough and incomplete recipe for starting to get a mix together, and although its simple its not necessarily easy until you get a 'feel' for how to make it work. Previously I suggested some sources of mixing information, and whilst its great practice to keep jumping in experimenting, its also seriously worthwhile to keep listening to commercial music and figure out what's going on, plus watching some home recording and mixing tutorials from the people I pointed you towards. It'll be frustrating for a while and it might feel like you just can't get it right, but you will :). It just takes lots of practice and patience coupled with delicate moves, careful and analytical listening, and a willingness to keep learning. We're all still learning. Best of luck to you :).
Graham (UK). Still composing a little faster than decomposing, and 100% HI.

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Re: Feedback on INDIE/FOLK Instrumental

Post by brianvegas » Sat Jul 23, 2022 10:10 pm

Telefunkin wrote:
Sat Jul 23, 2022 8:58 am
Hi Brian, I know you're trying, and I'm also trying to help and not just be 'on your case' :).

When I listen now I hear the trem guitar parts very dry and upfront (in my face), and everything else 50 ft away in the background and barely present, so it doesn't work as a mix that shows off your piece of music. At least the simpler arrangement should help avoid a cluttered mix and parts competing for attention.

Can I suggest that you find some music that you like of a similar style, and drop a version of it in your DAW alongside your track, so you can switch between the two? If you can do that you'll be able to compare what's going on more easily. When you listen to the ref track you'll hear some parts (eg voice. lead instruments) take centre stage, but they'll be supported by all the other instruments. Its important to grasp that concept of everything playing not only at the same time but in sympathy with each other and in the same space. You can hear everything that everybody is doing, even if some players are a little quieter or slightly further back in the mix than others. If you can't hear them then they might as well not be there.

The sense of space or ambience comes from the recording or more likely from adding reverb. Without that the instruments can sound quite false. You certainly don't have to bury things in reverb, but its amazing what a very small amount of room reverb can do to lend a more natural sound to things. Try a little on the trem guitars. Not too much or it will sit them back too far. thyen one by one bring the levels up on all the rest of the instruments until they sound like they're on the same stage or in the same room as the lead parts, but spread them across the stereo in a balanced way and also add a tiny touch more of the same reverb to those too. Now keep swapping between your track and the reference track until you get some sense of things being in similar balance and that your mix is working (everything audible, supporting the lead, but not competing, and nothing jumping out or dominating).

That's just a very rough and incomplete recipe for starting to get a mix together, and although its simple its not necessarily easy until you get a 'feel' for how to make it work. Previously I suggested some sources of mixing information, and whilst its great practice to keep jumping in experimenting, its also seriously worthwhile to keep listening to commercial music and figure out what's going on, plus watching some home recording and mixing tutorials from the people I pointed you towards. It'll be frustrating for a while and it might feel like you just can't get it right, but you will :). It just takes lots of practice and patience coupled with delicate moves, careful and analytical listening, and a willingness to keep learning. We're all still learning. Best of luck to you :).


Graham, thank you so much. It's a learning process and I hope I'm improving?
Can't stress how much this is appreciated!! No discouragement here...this is work.
I'd like to catch up and help out the next hopeful :D

Ty ty ty


Mix 1:
https://soundcloud.com/brian-vegas-1/bl ... tPaQhr8Ttd
buy me a coffee >> https://ko-fi.com/pandamic

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Re: Feedback on INDIE/FOLK Instrumental

Post by Telefunkin » Sun Jul 24, 2022 1:32 am

Much Better! I can tell you want to keep the drums subtle but perhaps just a hint more of that rolling rhythm would be nice for. What you might also consider is keeping the rhythm simpler in the early part of the track but progress to the busier rolling rhythm later. That way you're adding a little more sense of development to the track as well as offering more options for the potential end-user. Its usually a good idea to include an edit point in the track too (a natural sounding pause or gap in the track where an editor could fade it out and perhaps back in again to suit the visuals its supporting - see taxi TV).

You're certainly getting there with the rest though, so well done. Keep going, and good luck :).
Graham (UK). Still composing a little faster than decomposing, and 100% HI.

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Re: Feedback on INDIE/FOLK Instrumental

Post by AlanHall » Sun Jul 24, 2022 2:38 pm

Hey Brian,
I've been listening as you improve the mix, and can affirm that the latest is enjoyable and makes much more sense musically that the earlier mixes. Keep up the good work!

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Re: Feedback on INDIE/FOLK Instrumental

Post by brianvegas » Mon Jul 25, 2022 8:59 pm

As usual, thank you for the guidance and encouragement.
Latest update here as well as the main thread.

Thank you again!!! :D

https://soundcloud.com/brian-vegas-1/bl ... iQgzvT2IIF
buy me a coffee >> https://ko-fi.com/pandamic

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Re: Feedback on INDIE/FOLK Instrumental

Post by Telefunkin » Thu Jul 28, 2022 4:35 am

brianvegas wrote:
Mon Jul 25, 2022 8:59 pm
As usual, thank you for the guidance and encouragement.
Latest update here as well as the main thread.
Seriously getting there Brian! :)
You now have some great elements to work with, a better arrangement, and by the end of the track the mix is pretty good.
My suggestions to tweak it up a little would include...
- bring the piano up a touch in the early part of the track and add a hint more reverb to it
- bring the tremolo guitar chords down a bit at the beginning
- be really careful with some of the added drum parts, because they poke out too much, so I'd take them down, particularly as the track is still building
- also be careful with the timing of some of the drum parts, especially around transitions. At present they're a little loose.

This has the making of a very nice track and I'm sure you can turn it into a worthy submission. Best of luck with it.
Graham (UK). Still composing a little faster than decomposing, and 100% HI.

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Re: Feedback on INDIE/FOLK Instrumental

Post by brianvegas » Thu Aug 04, 2022 5:35 am

Hey folks,

Apologies for not following up, I had to sit back and re-evaluate my approach entirely.
Feels like a necessary amount of pointless pride is burned off and I'm ready to do this the right way.

Am reworking the track from scratch and should have something tomorrow.

Thank you for the feedback and support. :D
buy me a coffee >> https://ko-fi.com/pandamic

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