How loud should vocals be?

[fretman]

Hello everyone, I recently made a submission to the Happy Birthday request https://www.taxi.com/listings/S220719HB but it got rejected because "the lead vocal is just so buried in the mix. They should be right out front!" This was my first time doing a "song" so 1) I admit I was probably too shy, and 2) I'm not yet calibrated for where the vocals should sit. I have not yet developed a feel for it. So I'd like to use meters for now. What should I shoot for? Should vocals make the song +3dB louder? +6dB? What is a good ballpark starting number you'd recommend I start with?

In case it helps, my submission can be found at https://www.taxi.com/members/zuHdYfRqTI ... y-birthday

Thanks for any insight you're to share. Paul Smith

[cosmicdolphin]

I don't think they are that buried, they sound "about" the right level to me. What I would say is they sound soft, that arrangement wise there are things masking them and the reverb may not be helping either.

Also they don't have much 'presence' and that's as much to do with using a fairly soft sounding vocal co-ordination ( imagine belting being the loudest and a whisper being the softest / quietest ) and things like mic choice, automation , post processing etc. can all all play a part.

I don't think it's just a case of turning them up X Db as they will still sound soft and possibly end up too loud, I think it's as much about addressing a bit of all the above to get them to where they need to be. I'd try the following:

Try using some saturation/distortion on your vocals, it will bring them forward without necessarily making them louder because it will add harmonics

Dipping the mid range EQ from those instruments parts that are stepping on the vocal.

Eq the reverb return and take out any muddiness with a high pass filter

Use automation to give yourself more control over the level from word to word to make it consistent

You could also look at using a compressor fed by a sidechain from the vocal track to dip the level of some of the backing instruments when the vocals come in.

Hope that helps and gives you a few things you can try.

Mark

[funsongs]

As a fan of Bluegrass - I like your adaptation 'overall/s'.
Since the instrument solos/breaks are an equal highlight in Bluegrass -
I didn't think your vocals were 'buried' - but maybe up 2db would be enough... so they are equally trading off with the solo parts.
Vocal harmonies are also a huge part of this style - so, the screeners MIGHT be addressing that, sort of.
Good luck; it's catchy. Cheers,
Peter

[ochaim]

to add to the above, generally its a good idea to compare your track to a reference track. switch back and forth and see if there is any aspect of your mix is noticeably different.

this is a good way to get a point of reference when you’re unsure of where it “should” be.

[AlanHall]

Listening on really cr*ppy laptop speakers, the vocals sound like all BG vox, with no lead. Slightly muffled, maybe with too much reverb. Not like the crystal clear instruments as they 'step up to the mic' to take a solo. I suggest picking one voice to be lead and processing it so that it has some presence and punch.

[markhimley]

Adding to above and really aligning with Owen's comment - make sure you are using reference tracks.

There is a long list of things that *could* be the problem, even feedback like this could potentially be pretty darn subjective. If someone is saying the vocals are too buried, it could simply be volume. It could be how the vocals are processed and the overall mix. Could be poor arrangement choices (too much stuff fighting for the space of the vocal), etc.

Make sure you are using references, and then listen to both your mix and the reference VERY quietly and on multiple listening devices. This is honestly the biggest piece of advice that huuuuugely improved my mixes and solved 95%+ of my problems. Listen very quietly, and learn to mix at quiet levels. Everything sounds great when it's loud. When you turn the volume way, way down, many problems become incredibly apparent.

The first time I really started doing this, I was very shocked at how loud modern vocals are. I remember the exact song; I was working on a song with Ruth B's version of "Lost Boy" as a reference https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58TBZnv ... =RuthBVEVO

The first thing I noticed is how crazy loud the vocals seemed. The piano completely disappeared. Funny enough, now many years later as I'm listening now, they don't sound *that* crazy loud to me anymore. Guess my ears have adjusted over the years.

Hopefully something in there helps

[fretman]

Thanks everyone, for your suggestions. Lots of ideas there for me to consider. My voice is naturally "soft" so I think I'll focus on making them more edgy and bright. I'll revisit their reverb. I like the idea of sidechaining it into some of the instruments to bring them down. Thanks, again! Paul

[Casey H]

Just a note that for the Happy Birthday cover listing, there were no reference tracks. However, given the potential uses for a cover like this, I would think the vocal would have to be out front.

A Wide Range of ORIGINAL RENDITIONS OF “HAPPY BIRTHDAY” in ANY STYLE with Male or Female Vocals are needed by an International Music Library with lots of great placements in Film and TV.

This Library is searching for Covers of the "Happy Birthday" Song in:
• Any (commercially viable) Genre/Sub-Genre
• Any Tempo
• With Male or Female Vocals

NOTE: We purposely avoided putting references in this request as we felt they could potentially be more misleading or limiting than helpful.

Please submit well-produced Covers of "Happy Birthday" in any (commercially viable) style and genre including EDM, Hip-Hop, Pop, Singer/Songwriter, Rock, R&B, Jazz, Soul, Folk, Country, etc., etc., etc. Your submissions should stay true to the original melodies and lyrics, have top-notch musicianship, and expressive, well-performed vocals. Your arrangements can range from simple to more filled-out productions depending on the genre you choose – just be sure they are consistent and competitive with Songs in your chosen genre. Your production should be polished and any virtual instruments or samples you use should be high-quality and not dated.

TAXI Tip: We recommend sticking as close as possible to the original melodies of the Song so it's instantly recognizable. If you stray too far from the original melodies and lyrics, your Covers may not be as appealing or usable.

All submissions should be at least 30 seconds, and up to 90 seconds long. Do NOT submit any material with unauthorized samples of any other artists’ music, sounds, or any other form of media. Broadcast Quality is needed.

This company offers an EXCLUSIVE deal, so please be sure the Songs you pitch for this opportunity are NOT already signed with any other Companies or Catalogs. You must own or control your Master to submit. Please submit as many Songs as you'd like, online or per CD. All submissions will be screened and critiqued by TAXI. Submissions must be received no later than 11:59 PM (PDT) on Tuesday, July 19th, 2022. TAXI # S220719HB

[ochaim]

“Any (commercially viable) Genre/Sub-Genre”

There may not be specific reference tracks listed but I’d start with this part of brief, as broad as it is, as a suggestion for how to find one.

Vocals are generally upfront. The references helps provide a point of reference for how upfront it can/should be when balanced against the rest of the track.