Drum Software Workflow

with industry Pro, Nick Batzdorf

Moderators: admin, mdc, TAXIstaff

mattbee
Active
Active
Posts: 41
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2022 9:36 pm
Contact:

Drum Software Workflow

Post by mattbee » Wed Aug 17, 2022 2:46 am

Hi all,

I've been tearing my hair out when it comes to programming drums and I'm curious (actually, quite eager) for suggestions or people to share their 'in the box' drum workflow if they would be so kind, (not those that record actual drums).
I've used the Logic Drummer (which from feedback I've received, probably doesn't quite cut it in terms of the strength of the sounds), as well as Splice samples, but I'm not great at actual programming. I understand drums, sure, but I'm a non drummer so an intuitive fill to a drummer or opening up the hats on a certain beat in a groove is a slow process for me, and is probably a weak link in the chain of my compositions.

Any suggestions for ticking both the 'modern (non dated)/broadcast quality sounds' box, as well as the 'gets a non-drummer from point A to point B the quickest/easiest' box? I write indie pop, folk, acoustic styles, as well as newer more synth based modern dance pop.

I've been looking at the latest EZ Drummer 3, Superior Drummer 3, but am open to all suggestions. I'm not terribly bothered about if I don't have 9 mic choices in 12 positions for each part of the kit and would love a simple workflow - but obviously want to use whatever will give professional results. I've still got access to Splice one-shots if I need to create my own kits etc, but keen to hear how everyone goes about it when it comes to the software/sounds and creating the actual parts, whether its starting with midi grooves inside drum software then editing from there, or playing in grooves on a beat pad, or whatever...

Many thanks in advance!

jefflaplante
Impressive
Impressive
Posts: 324
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:10 pm
Gender: Male
Contact:

Re: Drum Software Workflow

Post by jefflaplante » Wed Aug 17, 2022 6:45 am

I sense your hesitation to use Splice loops, but as long as you are chopping them up, layering with other one shots, changing original tempo, adding effects and making them your own...you should be good to go in terms of legal issues. If you really like the feel of a certain drum loop, just layer a different kick and a different snare on top, add some hats from a different loop, and now you have something to work with. All the top producers are using samples in some form or another. The Splice - Oliver packs alone can be heard all over Top 40 radio right now. (Music libraries will differ in regards to their opinion on using loops, so you also have to be careful there. One library I work for strictly forbids using loops. Another library actually encourages it by giving their composers access to loop libraries for free.)

You mentioned EZ Drummer and Superior Drummer, but although I use those sometimes, they still take a lot of work to get them to sound realistic. Another option is Stylus RMX by Spectrasonics...the same company that makes Omnisphere. Definitely worth checking out, although it hasn't been updated in a while, and some of those sounds are now dated as well.

What a lot of producers are doing now is taking a percussion or hi-hat loop from Splice and a bunch of "one shots" (kick, snare, claps, impacts, etc...) also from splice...and creating their own beats with those individual elements.

Hope this helps.

Jeff

User avatar
melodea
Committed Musician
Committed Musician
Posts: 570
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:42 am
Gender: Male
Contact:

Re: Drum Software Workflow

Post by melodea » Wed Aug 17, 2022 7:14 am

What a lot of producers are doing now is taking a percussion or hi-hat loop from Splice and a bunch of "one shots" (kick, snare, claps, impacts, etc...) also from splice...and creating their own beats with those individual elements.

I'm totally with Jeff on this one! I use Splice loops to start with and add Kicks, Snares, Hats & cymbals as I go on. In the end, the initial loop is highly high passed and just there as groovy background. Like that you have way more control over the mix of the drums. Superior Drummer is cool, but as Jeff said, there's a lot of editing to be made in order to make it realistic or make it sound up to date with the sounds!

Good luck

Chris
[glow][/glow]Melodea a.k.a. Chris Moser

Cameloide
Getting Busy
Getting Busy
Posts: 112
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2020 12:09 pm
Gender: Male
Contact:

Re: Drum Software Workflow

Post by Cameloide » Wed Aug 17, 2022 9:02 am

I haven't messed with Splice so I can't speak to that. But for organic genres I usually let my drummer handle recording real drums, but sometimes when I'm trying to save time I'll just use virtual drums. I've got the Native Instruments stuff, but when I've tried using just the Studio Drummer, Modern Drummer or the Abbey Road kits I've gotten the "dated" feedback from Taxi and from a publishing house too. For rock stuff I started doubling the drum part with the Butch Vig drums in Native Instruments and that has been getting me over the bar eve since. That being said, I used to have EZ Drummer which I much preferred over the Native Instruments stuff, not because the sounds were so much better necessarily, but the workflow and everything else is better. If your pocket book can handle it I would probably go with Superior Drummer.

User avatar
cosmicdolphin
Serious Musician
Serious Musician
Posts: 4447
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 1:46 pm
Gender: Male
Contact:

Re: Drum Software Workflow

Post by cosmicdolphin » Wed Aug 17, 2022 9:31 am

jefflaplante wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 6:45 am
What a lot of producers are doing now is taking a percussion or hi-hat loop from Splice and a bunch of "one shots" (kick, snare, claps, impacts, etc...) also from splice...and creating their own beats with those individual elements.
Yeah this.

Plus all the other stuff. I probably end up with a dozen tracks in the Drums section. I often use Kick 2 which is a dedicated kick drum plugin as it gives me more control. But I combine it with everything mentioned above too.

I use Addictive Drums 2 which is pretty similar to EZDrummer , but I like to have that in addition because as well as being full of great grooves I can steal and embellish to make my own I can instantly change the kit , I can drag the midi out of it to make some edits or trigger anther drum instrument and it makes it easy to add little things here and there like crashes and tom rolls etc.

The whole drum sound ends up a bit of a Frankenstein's Drumster made up of various things. I wouldn't wanna restrict myself just to one or the other.

Mark

User avatar
DouglasKnight
Committed Musician
Committed Musician
Posts: 596
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2021 7:09 pm
Gender: Male
Contact:

Re: Drum Software Workflow

Post by DouglasKnight » Thu Aug 18, 2022 3:01 am

Hi Matt!

I mainly use Toontrack Superior Drummer, which I highly recommend because you've got the ease of EZ Drummer when it comes to constructing your track (drag and drop song sections into your DAW) along with the ability to really tweak the kits and mix if you need to. Toontrack has so many midi expansion packs for different musical styles, which work with both EZ and Superior, so you won't run out of options there. https://www.toontrack.com/product-category/midipacks/

I also use Native Instruments sometimes for additional kick or snare sounds, and will grab Apple loops for shaker and tambourine if needed, or I'll record my own. I've not ventured into Splice yet, but I probably will very soon!

Good luck!
Doug

mattbee
Active
Active
Posts: 41
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2022 9:36 pm
Contact:

Re: Drum Software Workflow

Post by mattbee » Thu Aug 18, 2022 4:17 am

Thanks so much everyone!
I like the intelligent way EZ drummer looks in terms of it's listen function (I'd love to hit the import button and it gives me certain grooves) but it seems like perhaps the strength of the samples isn't the best, but I'd be happy to layer them with one-shot hits from Splice etc if needed. I'd also love something with a ton of midi grooves (or lots of available 3rd party) to at least start from.

Speaking of Splice, thanks so much for the Splice loop suggestions - is there a minimum amount of altering you'd need to do to these loops to make them 'safe'? (Let's say, a high hat loop from Splice). The last thing I'd want is for a library to ask for the high hat stem and it be a loop, that triggers some sort of YouTube detection or Tunesat etc.... Or are those types of things not that smart yet when it comes to rhythms?

Anyways, looks like I'll keep the hundred tabs open and keep researching for another few days as everyone has given me some more things to think about!

jefflaplante
Impressive
Impressive
Posts: 324
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:10 pm
Gender: Male
Contact:

Re: Drum Software Workflow

Post by jefflaplante » Thu Aug 18, 2022 6:04 am

You can pretty much leave the hi-hat loop as is. I don't think any library will be asking for a hi-hat only stem. (Usually it's a drum and bass stem or possibly a drums only stem) Let's say you were using a real drummer...a 16th note pattern would sound very similar to another drummer's 16th note pattern, especially played at the same tempo with similar recording methods. The use of a 16th note pattern would not cause legal issues, even though there are thousands or even millions of 16th note patterns out there, all played by different drummers.

User avatar
cosmicdolphin
Serious Musician
Serious Musician
Posts: 4447
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 1:46 pm
Gender: Male
Contact:

Re: Drum Software Workflow

Post by cosmicdolphin » Thu Aug 18, 2022 7:54 am

mattbee wrote:
Thu Aug 18, 2022 4:17 am
Speaking of Splice, thanks so much for the Splice loop suggestions - is there a minimum amount of altering you'd need to do to these loops to make them 'safe'? (Let's say, a high hat loop from Splice). The last thing I'd want is for a library to ask for the high hat stem and it be a loop, that triggers some sort of YouTube detection or Tunesat etc.... Or are those types of things not that smart yet when it comes to rhythms?
I think you'll be fine with things like that and percussion parts just as they are. I wouldn't use a full beat unaltered though. Best to roll your own - I find LoopCloud much better for building custom beats out of a pile of sample sounds

mattbee
Active
Active
Posts: 41
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2022 9:36 pm
Contact:

Re: Drum Software Workflow

Post by mattbee » Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:37 am

Much appreciated the advice everyone :)

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests