Looking for feedback on the quality of sounds and production

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MJLeeman
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Looking for feedback on the quality of sounds and production

Post by MJLeeman » Mon Jan 31, 2022 10:37 pm

Here is the backing to a song I have written. I have been working on ways to improve the quality sounds and production in my music generally. Any comments, hints, advice etc on how I have approached those features in this track?

https://www.taxi.com/members/nwRU7pygQr ... king-track

In the track, I have relied mainly on Serum presets created by third parties. A couple of the sounds are patches provided by Spitfire Audio/LABS/BBCSO, Vital synth and several percussion and drum loops from Presonus Studio One.

Thanks in advance
Michael Leeman

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Re: Looking for feedback on the quality of sounds and production

Post by Paulie » Tue Feb 15, 2022 9:28 pm

Interesting track... has a unique 80s vibe blended with some more modern sounds. The snare screams 80s to me. :)

I think the mix could be improved to get a better balance overall, an evenness between the different instruments. I sometimes use the Pink Noise method, check out YouTube for some tutorials, it is quite easy and helps me get good balance at times.

Would love to hear the track with the vocals.
Paul "yo paulie!" Croteau
"Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy." Beethoven
http://www.yopauliemusic.com | https://www.taxi.com/members/paulcroteau | https://youtube.com/@yopauliemusic

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Re: Looking for feedback on the quality of sounds and production

Post by MJLeeman » Thu Feb 17, 2022 1:25 am

Paulie wrote:
Tue Feb 15, 2022 9:28 pm
Interesting track... has a unique 80s vibe blended with some more modern sounds. The snare screams 80s to me. :)

I think the mix could be improved to get a better balance overall, an evenness between the different instruments. I sometimes use the Pink Noise method, check out YouTube for some tutorials, it is quite easy and helps me get good balance at times.

Would love to hear the track with the vocals.
Thanks Paul
When writing this track, I actually had vaguely in mind, in the verses and pre-chorus, glimpses of British music, not of the 80s but of the early 70s, particularly Supertramp, and I believe that there is much scope for revival of elements of that and similar styles now. It seems incredible that it was popular half a century ago. When I have previously submitted music for a custom Taxi review, the screener informed me that, in terms of sounds and production techniques, the general rule for retro music is that it be 30% retro and 70% modern. The updated track represents an attempt to do just this as best I can. I also researched the pink noise method as you suggested and tried this out - it is a useful and quick way to check levels in a mix.

Thank you for your input - much appreciated.

I updated the backing track here:-

https://www.taxi.com/members/nwRU7pygQr ... king-track

Cheers
Michael

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Re: Looking for feedback on the quality of sounds and production

Post by Telefunkin » Thu Feb 17, 2022 3:23 am

Hi, I listened to your updated track. Yep, its retro, and I sort of get a warm glow from the memories it triggers of that Simmons/DX7/Prophet era. I'm not sure its only 30% retro though, I'd say closer to 100% :).

Its not easy to judge all aspects without the vocal because everything has to shift to accommodate the vocal frequencies (male/female/solo/rich harmonies ?) so that every word is clear and maintains attention. However, a few things occurred to me on listening:

- The bouncy synth (@30s, 60s) sounds slightly out of tune to me.
- The snare is very dark, although that might be perfect when the vocal is in place.
- The synth entry @1:17 (and perhaps @2:20) is quite prominent and seems to jump out of the mix.
- I don't think the pink-noise sweep ending works. A composed ending is important for sync.
- The sections repeat, which gives the song its form, but they don't develop (other than a slight increase in pre-chorus perc), so Its almost like a building block assembly. I think it would help the sense of development through the song to have some additional elements or ear candy in each chorus at least, and that is even more important if the track were to be used for sync without the vocal.

I hope that helps, and as Paulie said, it'd be interesting to hear this with the vocals. Good luck.
Graham (UK). Still composing a little faster than decomposing, and 100% HI.

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Re: Looking for feedback on the quality of sounds and production

Post by MJLeeman » Fri Feb 18, 2022 4:09 am

Telefunkin wrote:
Thu Feb 17, 2022 3:23 am
Hi, I listened to your updated track. Yep, its retro, and I sort of get a warm glow from the memories it triggers of that Simmons/DX7/Prophet era. I'm not sure its only 30% retro though, I'd say closer to 100% :).

Its not easy to judge all aspects without the vocal because everything has to shift to accommodate the vocal frequencies (male/female/solo/rich harmonies ?) so that every word is clear and maintains attention. However, a few things occurred to me on listening:

- The bouncy synth (@30s, 60s) sounds slightly out of tune to me.
- The snare is very dark, although that might be perfect when the vocal is in place.
- The synth entry @1:17 (and perhaps @2:20) is quite prominent and seems to jump out of the mix.
- I don't think the pink-noise sweep ending works. A composed ending is important for sync.
- The sections repeat, which gives the song its form, but they don't develop (other than a slight increase in pre-chorus perc), so Its almost like a building block assembly. I think it would help the sense of development through the song to have some additional elements or ear candy in each chorus at least, and that is even more important if the track were to be used for sync without the vocal.

I hope that helps, and as Paulie said, it'd be interesting to hear this with the vocals. Good luck.

Thanks, Telefunkin, for taking the time to listen to the track and for your observations and suggestions. I am learning a great amount of useful information from yourself and others on this forum and for that I am grateful.

Taking your points above in turn:-
-The out of tune synth is a 3rd party Serum preset which I used intentionally-many of the new sounds have what seems to be (to my ears) an excessive amount of detune as a feature. I chose a synth sound which had less detune than others in the sound set which I checked out. My thinking is that, once the vocalist has added her part, I will re-assess that sound and edit if needed.
- the drum track is a loop which included kick, snare and hi-hat, so I never recorded each of these parts separately. I will probably need to do this before the final mix including vocals.
- I scaled back the level of the offending synth
- I used pink noise as a reference to help set the faders for each track, as suggested by Paulie. The sound at the end is actually a reverse snare sample which I might need to redo/rethink.
- Re your comment about the underdeveloped repeated sections, ear candy etc., I will check with my singer about this-the issue is variety to complement the repetition and your point is well made

As a general comment, I might say that, in a previous retro 80s track which I completed, I attempted, before having the vocal recorded, to make space for the vocals before they were added, by panning and reverb (mainly). This time I have tried to add some very low bassline and high treble frequencies to provide space for the vocals (which will include I hope some multilayered backing vocals). It's an experiment-here's hoping that I have not overdone this, and I guess that I'll see how it turns out once the vocal tracks come in.

Here is the latest version (over riding the previous one):-

https://www.taxi.com/members/nwRU7pygQr ... king-track

Cheers
Michael

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Re: Looking for feedback on the quality of sounds and production

Post by BradGray » Fri Feb 18, 2022 4:37 am

Hey Michael,

Nice track. Really sounds like something from the early 80s. I can picture some cool/retro computer graphics floating along a tv to go with the track. =) Well done!

I would suggest, what others did, in regards to the mix. There's not much low-end warmth at all, very mid range sounding. If that's the sound you were shooting for, great! But if not, you may wish to balance more.

Cheers,
Brad

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Re: Looking for feedback on the quality of sounds and production

Post by MJLeeman » Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:14 am

I revisited this track recently. I hired a vocalist, and though I'm reasonably happy with the overall production, I still hear some things getting lost in the backing track, and I'm not sure whether to scale the arrangement back and/or whether there are other ways to achieve better clarity and balance. I would be grateful to receive any advice on these issues. Here's the updated version:

https://www.taxi.com/members/nwRU7pygQr ... gh-and-dry

Cheers
Michael

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Re: Looking for feedback on the quality of sounds and production

Post by Ted » Thu Sep 01, 2022 2:03 pm

Michael,

I like this track-- it gives me some real 80's nostalgia; Somewhere between Queen and a Mentos commercial haha. I like the singer's voice for this song. Yeah, some things are fighting in the mix, but arrangement and energy-wise, I dig it.

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Re: Looking for feedback on the quality of sounds and production

Post by cosmicdolphin » Thu Sep 01, 2022 2:17 pm

Ted wrote:
Thu Sep 01, 2022 2:03 pm
Somewhere between Queen and a Mentos commercial
Now there's a concept for a production music album.

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Re: Looking for feedback on the quality of sounds and production

Post by MJLeeman » Wed Sep 28, 2022 4:04 am

Ted wrote:
Thu Sep 01, 2022 2:03 pm
Michael,

I like this track-- it gives me some real 80's nostalgia; Somewhere between Queen and a Mentos commercial haha. I like the singer's voice for this song. Yeah, some things are fighting in the mix, but arrangement and energy-wise, I dig it.
Thanks Ted, I appreciate your comments on this work in progress. I was actually trying to include mostly hints of a 70s and I guess also a bit of an 80s British vibe in this track. Earlier this year, while Phil Collins was finalising a Genesis world tour, I think in London, an original or early member of that group, guitarist Steve Hackett, was playing in Australia in June, in another "Genesis" tour which had been delayed for at least a year by you know what, with other "non-foundation" Genesis musicians from the UK (I think) and together they played, as the entire concert, a modern rendition of a Genesis album from the 70s, with the intermission occuring after the tracks from the first side of the original vinyl record had been performed. I sat in the third row of quite a small venue in Brisbane and I was mightily impressed by Steve Hackett, a bloke approaching his mid 70s, playing (with an impressive rack of pedals) great musical lines in his guitar work, mostly though not always in a supporting role. What I like about that era is the genuine musical approach taken (Supertramp was another example) based on strong harmonic and melodic progressions - true music, good songs, and generally great keyboard playing. I would speculate that production was an afterthought, rather than the driving force behind the music, as often seems to be the case today, in my opinion (just saying, not criticising).

So that is where I am coming from with this track with respect to the influences behind it. Today, a mate and I have had a go at mastering it, and I would be especially interested in advice re anything to do with the mastering stage, which I guess that I am trying to "master."

Here it is:

https://www.taxi.com/members/nwRU7pygQr ... reo-master

Cheers
Michael

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