Help improving a return - Piano/Orchestral - Hollow piano, stiff strings
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Help improving a return - Piano/Orchestral - Hollow piano, stiff strings
Good morning,
I submitted to a recent listing that sought uplifting piano/orchestral tracks. The track was returned mainly for production reasons, it appears, as the composition and mood were positively reviewed. So, I want to learn from this and improve the track. On the production front, the piano was deemed "hollow" sounding ("maybe try a more emotive piano sound"), and the strings were described as "stiff".
The piano used is the VSL Steinway and, granted, at higher velocities, sure, it can sound a bit "spiky" - maybe that's hollowness? When assembling this track, it felt like the piano needed to punch through the strings later on, which gets you into a pointy(hollow?) piano sound, but maybe......different piano library come to mind for anyone? Compress the piano more to alter attack/sustain? Play fuller chords vs just octaves? An emotive felty piano just won't cut (I think??) Just trying to decode and address "hollow" here (and certainly not repeat that if objectionable).
Regarding stiff strings - well, maybe quantize less? Certainly want tight 16th notes, not a sloppy blur. I'm less familiar with ways to tackle that but appreciate any pointers on how to improve all of this!
https://www.taxi.com/members/7NoXP-vTTv ... h-horizons
I submitted to a recent listing that sought uplifting piano/orchestral tracks. The track was returned mainly for production reasons, it appears, as the composition and mood were positively reviewed. So, I want to learn from this and improve the track. On the production front, the piano was deemed "hollow" sounding ("maybe try a more emotive piano sound"), and the strings were described as "stiff".
The piano used is the VSL Steinway and, granted, at higher velocities, sure, it can sound a bit "spiky" - maybe that's hollowness? When assembling this track, it felt like the piano needed to punch through the strings later on, which gets you into a pointy(hollow?) piano sound, but maybe......different piano library come to mind for anyone? Compress the piano more to alter attack/sustain? Play fuller chords vs just octaves? An emotive felty piano just won't cut (I think??) Just trying to decode and address "hollow" here (and certainly not repeat that if objectionable).
Regarding stiff strings - well, maybe quantize less? Certainly want tight 16th notes, not a sloppy blur. I'm less familiar with ways to tackle that but appreciate any pointers on how to improve all of this!
https://www.taxi.com/members/7NoXP-vTTv ... h-horizons
- DouglasKnight
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Re: Help improving a return - Piano/Orchestral - Hollow piano, stiff strings
Wow, Michael, really nice work on this piece.
I think it sounds great. While this genre is not my area, I would suggest auditioning some other pianos that may match the references more closely. Also, wondering if the piece is a bit fast? It seems a little frenetic at times, maybe slowing it down slightly will sound a little less stiff?
Anyway, I think it sounds great, wonderful work.
Hope that helps, Doug.
I think it sounds great. While this genre is not my area, I would suggest auditioning some other pianos that may match the references more closely. Also, wondering if the piece is a bit fast? It seems a little frenetic at times, maybe slowing it down slightly will sound a little less stiff?
Anyway, I think it sounds great, wonderful work.
Hope that helps, Doug.
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Re: Help improving a return - Piano/Orchestral - Hollow piano, stiff strings
Hey Michael-
You could try layering with another piano sound. Basically duplicate the piano track and use a different piano sound.. you may have to try a few before you find one that compliments the original.
Listen to both tracks together while searching for/trying out other piano sounds instead of trying to find another piano sound you like, because it may/will sound different when they're layered. Then you can adjust the levels of the two piano tracks to achieve the desired blend/sound.
Hopefully this helps!
-Erik
You could try layering with another piano sound. Basically duplicate the piano track and use a different piano sound.. you may have to try a few before you find one that compliments the original.
Listen to both tracks together while searching for/trying out other piano sounds instead of trying to find another piano sound you like, because it may/will sound different when they're layered. Then you can adjust the levels of the two piano tracks to achieve the desired blend/sound.
Hopefully this helps!
-Erik
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- AlanHall
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Re: Help improving a return - Piano/Orchestral - Hollow piano, stiff strings
The piano is certainly bright! If I was in the screener's head I might presume that they were looking for a 'warmer' piano sound, something with a little more low and midrange resonance. I'm also a little disappointed that the strings seem to carry the same articulation all the way through. Switching up to some legato, especially when the lines are a blur of notes, might mitigate some of the 'stiffness' that the screener mentions. Just me guessing, though.
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Re: Help improving a return - Piano/Orchestral - Hollow piano, stiff strings
I know a lot of industry people that keep using this sample library:
https://cinesamples.com/product/piano-in-blue
It's the piano used on a lot of famous Columbia Records recordings.
Also, if you want to go down this rabbit hole, one of the old audio engineers made a website with a bunch of photos from that old studio.
http://www.reevesaudio.com/vintagesessions.html
Enjoy and good luck!
https://cinesamples.com/product/piano-in-blue
It's the piano used on a lot of famous Columbia Records recordings.
Also, if you want to go down this rabbit hole, one of the old audio engineers made a website with a bunch of photos from that old studio.
http://www.reevesaudio.com/vintagesessions.html
Enjoy and good luck!
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Re: Help improving a return - Piano/Orchestral - Hollow piano, stiff strings
Nice tune and the instruments sound pretty good to me. I agree that the piano is brighter than I like: I prefer a darker sound.
The only thing I noticed is that the piano sounded kind of dull against the dense string background. It stands out over the strings because it's bright, but I think you want a richer voicing than just close octaves. Maybe try a darker tone, and space the melody 2 octaves apart instead of one, or maybe even add some harmony (chords). It sounds real cool when the orchestra drops out and you are playing arpeggiated left hand, so don't do that when the orchestra is playing (save the surprise), but it needs something...
Nice job, though. That's a hard style to do, with a super busy string part like that.
best,
Vince
The only thing I noticed is that the piano sounded kind of dull against the dense string background. It stands out over the strings because it's bright, but I think you want a richer voicing than just close octaves. Maybe try a darker tone, and space the melody 2 octaves apart instead of one, or maybe even add some harmony (chords). It sounds real cool when the orchestra drops out and you are playing arpeggiated left hand, so don't do that when the orchestra is playing (save the surprise), but it needs something...
Nice job, though. That's a hard style to do, with a super busy string part like that.
best,
Vince
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Re: Help improving a return - Piano/Orchestral - Hollow piano, stiff strings
Thank you for all the feedback everyone. I took a break from this cue, with no brief driving it. Also, a break always brings a fresh perspective. I'll revisit this with all of the great thoughts shared here - so I wanted to thank you all.
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