30 and 60 second cuts query - first time prepping

[skevvya]

Hi all,

I've had a few forwards now but haven't yet seen the next bit of the process. I've just submitted to something that mentioned that if they came back to you they would want 30 and 60 second cuts on a fairly quick turnaround. I'm guessing this is a common thing and I want to be prepared so I'm planning to start creating 30 and 60 second cuts on everything I submit just in case.

I have two questions:-
1) Is that 30 and 60 second time limit absolutely exact? (sorry if that's an obvious answer but I need to check because I don't know for certain)
2) Obviously a 30 and 60 second straight cut doesn't neatly select a fully formed chunk (unless you've been working in 60bpm!). I'm thinking that I get round it by speeding up/slowing down the overall bpm of a nice complete chunk to fit 30 seconds and 60 seconds. Is this the right approach or am I missing something crucial?

Thanks as ever for any help. Looking forward to one day being able to answer someone else's questions rather than just logging my own!

Alexandra

[Telefunkin]

1) Is that 30 and 60 second time limit absolutely exact? (sorry if that's an obvious answer but I need to check because I don't know for certain)

Yes.

2) Obviously a 30 and 60 second straight cut doesn't neatly select a fully formed chunk (unless you've been working in 60bpm!). I'm thinking that I get round it by speeding up/slowing down the overall bpm of a nice complete chunk to fit 30 seconds and 60 seconds.

No, don't do that.
It won't sit nicely with other parts of your track if the editor wants to use those too, and it could sound weird/phasey with time stretching. There are various things you can do to get the length you want, and this is where it helps to have the original track and midi in your DAW. You might find a convenient entry point just around 60s (or 30s) from the end and ...
- lengthen/shorten the ring-out at the the end (as long as it sounds natural and isn't ridiculously long or stunted.
- use a 'hit' ending instead of a ring-out, or add a 'hit' after the ring-out.
- use an introduction bar, a riser or a drum fill to get to where the track might naturally start.

Most of us will have done this tons of times for just about every track signed to a library, and there's always a way. Sometimes you get lucky and it drops very easily, but sometimes you have to be a bit more crafty. Good luck .

[skevvya]

Thanks Graham - much appreciated.
It's a piano instrumental and it's got quite a bit of moving forwards/holding back tempo in it. I've just sorted a couple of versions using the end reprise - a tiny bit slower for the long one overall and for the shorter one I chopped off some repeating chords at the end and also made the whole thing a tiny bit faster. The issue I've got with not using a tempo change is that I've written something with quite long melodic phrases so it's hard to make a cut without it sounding totally unfinished....a lesson for next time!

I went back to the original MIDI for the cuts and timings and then bounced again and I think both snippets still sound in keeping with the original without any distortion. Maybe I'll change that opinion when I take another listen tomorrow

Such a guessing game for me at the moment but probably a good idea to work out how to do it BEFORE someone asks for it!

Thanks again for replying, take care,
A

[RobertElse]

1) Is that 30 and 60 second time limit absolutely exact? (sorry if that's an obvious answer but I need to check because I don't know for certain)

I have the same question: do they want exactly 30 and 60 seconds? I've seen requests where the 30 second version has to be exactly 29.5. Don't know if that applies here, and to the 60 second version.
Thanks for any help,
Robert

[JenniferBowman]

I usually have the last actual note be at 28 and 57/58 seconds respectively for piano cues like this. Then with the reverb or pedal fade you can chop at 30 and it sounds natural. Sometimes you may need to add a single high or low note at this point which often works well. But yes, sometimes the phrasing can be tricky. I have started playing with the BPM speed before starting the track these days so I can write something natural sounding within a certain speed that has nice edit points. Good luck on the listing!

[RobertElse]

I usually have the last actual note be at 28 and 57/58 seconds respectively for piano cues like this. Then with the reverb or pedal fade you can chop at 30 and it sounds natural. Sometimes you may need to add a single high or low note at this point which often works well. But yes, sometimes the phrasing can be tricky. I have started playing with the BPM speed before starting the track these days so I can write something natural sounding within a certain speed that has nice edit points. Good luck on the listing!

I see what you mean - good advice. I wish I could have used a cutdown-friendly BPM this time, but my track ended up molto rubato. I'll figure something out.

Good luck to you too!!

Robert

[Paulie]

Not all music fits neatly into 30/60 second clips. It's good to know of that requirement in advance when writing. Keep in mind that libraries ask for this due to commercial placements, so your 30 seconds should actually be 29.5, your 60 seconds should be 59.

If you are referring to your gorgeous piano forwards, if you recorded them via MIDI, you can probably find sections that capture the mood in the required time windows. You could go back and edit to create good start/stop points. What I do in Logic is create a 30 second looping marker at the top of the window and then drag it to places that might work. First, create an Alternate project so you are not chopping your original. Then you can find a musically appropriate phrase ending and work backward from that. Don't change much, just make the start sound like a start.

I would not worry about making these edits in advance going forward, until you are in a library that has these alt mixes as a requirement.

[RobertElse]

Not all music fits neatly into 30/60 second clips. It's good to know of that requirement in advance when writing. Keep in mind that libraries ask for this due to commercial placements, so your 30 seconds should actually be 29.5, your 60 seconds should be 59.

If you are referring to your gorgeous piano forwards, if you recorded them via MIDI, you can probably find sections that capture the mood in the required time windows. You could go back and edit to create good start/stop points. What I do in Logic is create a 30 second looping marker at the top of the window and then drag it to places that might work. First, create an Alternate project so you are not chopping your original. Then you can find a musically appropriate phrase ending and work backward from that. Don't change much, just make the start sound like a start.

I would not worry about making these edits in advance going forward, until you are in a library that has these alt mixes as a requirement.

Thanks very much Paulie. I was especially wondering about the 29.5 versus 30 seconds... I know I've heard that advice before regarding ads, just wasn't sure. I made mine exactly 30 and 60, so I'll keep those, and make a pair at 29.5/59, while the track is still fresh in my mind, and see which one they want if I'm lucky enough to get the call. It is MIDI, and I've found the phrases that work. Just a challenge to keep it musical. Good practice for the craft in general. (Hey at least it's not mag tape... can you imagine?)

Thanks again for listening and replying.
Robert