What do foreign (non US) composers do for PRO?

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What do foreign (non US) composers do for PRO?

Post by SteveR » Fri Mar 17, 2023 11:19 am

What do our “overseas” composers do in regards PRO in order not to miss out on any eligible income?

I looked at ASCAP and BMI’s registration requirements and they need a Social Security Number. That made me stop and think of potential legalities, thinking US bank account requirements, tax and whatever other complexities that might arise. In my specific case I am a New Zealander living in Dubai. I visit the US every month or two. I will most likely move back to NZ in the next 5-7 years.

Any guidance appreciated. TIA

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Re: What do foreign (non US) composers do for PRO?

Post by Casey H » Fri Mar 17, 2023 1:29 pm

I believe in most cases, you join the PRO for your country (APRA for New Zealand). Each non-US PRO has an agreement with ASCAP or BMI to collect your US royalties.

Alternatively, depending on where you live, you may be able to join ASCAP or BMI directly, even as a non-resident. Good info here:
https://youtu.be/z1P4AlGJckE

AFAIK, if you can join directly, you will get paid much faster (2-3 quarters from broadcast) as opposed to 1.5 years or more for US broadcasts.

I welcome additions and/or corrections.

:D Casey

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Re: What do foreign (non US) composers do for PRO?

Post by superkons » Sat Mar 18, 2023 7:09 am

It is totally possible to join an American PRO as a non-American citizen/resident. In fact, I assisted my mate Fabio with the switch from SIAE (Italy's PRO) to BMI, and the only required extra document to provide was the usual WBEN-8 form.

On a side note, it seems as though BMI have gone "silent" in terms of getting back to queries directed at them. Fabio is still waiting for them to confirm that he has been affiliated, we did the switch at the beginning of January this year
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Re: What do foreign (non US) composers do for PRO?

Post by SteveR » Sat Mar 18, 2023 1:51 pm

Casey H wrote:
Fri Mar 17, 2023 1:29 pm
I believe in most cases, you join the PRO for your country (APRA for New Zealand). Each non-US PRO has an agreement with ASCAP or BMI to collect your US royalties.

Alternatively, depending on where you live, you may be able to join ASCAP or BMI directly, even as a non-resident. Good info here:
https://youtu.be/z1P4AlGJckE

AFAIK, if you can join directly, you will get paid much faster (2-3 quarters from broadcast) as opposed to 1.5 years or more for US broadcasts.

I welcome additions and/or corrections.

:D Casey
Thank you Casey! Jesse’s Sync My Music channel is great. The link you gave, and a video that was referred to within was of huge assistance. Link here for any future searches on the topic: https://youtu.be/4kBMzo_T9kM

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Re: What do foreign (non US) composers do for PRO?

Post by SteveR » Sat Mar 18, 2023 2:03 pm

superkons wrote:
Sat Mar 18, 2023 7:09 am
It is totally possible to join an American PRO as a non-American citizen/resident. In fact, I assisted my mate Fabio with the switch from SIAE (Italy's PRO) to BMI, and the only required extra document to provide was the usual WBEN-8 form.

On a side note, it seems as though BMI have gone "silent" in terms of getting back to queries directed at them. Fabio is still waiting for them to confirm that he has been affiliated, we did the switch at the beginning of January this year
Thanks for the info. All the best to you and your buddy from Italy. A great aspect of living where I am is meeting, and working with, people from all over the world.

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Re: What do foreign (non US) composers do for PRO?

Post by OwenGrech » Tue Mar 21, 2023 12:32 am

I live in Malta (Europe) and am registered with BMI so it is definitely possible. I haven't seen any money yet though (my first placements happened in Germany so it will take a while) therefore I can't comment on the whole experience yet. I think it all depends on where the majority of your music end up getting placed which is of course hard to predict.

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Re: What do foreign (non US) composers do for PRO?

Post by PeteCrane » Tue Mar 21, 2023 4:45 pm

I'm in Australia and am with APRA-AMCOS (same PRO as New Zealand). No need to join a US-based one or any other organisation. APRA is excellent at capturing and receiving funds from all other countries. I've received many royalties from Europe and the States from radio play, live performance returns, etc, straight into my bank account along with detailed statements from APRA. The system works!

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Re: What do foreign (non US) composers do for PRO?

Post by SteveR » Fri May 05, 2023 4:12 am

Thanks for the added info Pete and Owen. Sorry I didn’t reply sooner. I ended up joining BMI. Reason being is that I will probably continue to live in Dubai for at least 5 more years and there is no PRO here. Also the local currency is pinned to USD and we are tax free. I figured that would be the best option in my current situation. Hopefully I made the right decision!

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Re: What do foreign (non US) composers do for PRO?

Post by Telefunkin » Fri May 05, 2023 7:13 am

I'm in the UK and joined BMI many years ago (long story) just after they opened up to non-US members. Otherwise, I would have joined PRS in the UK. Its always 'swings and roundabouts' whichever PRO you join though. Some pros (not PROs ;)) and cons (not swindles ;)) that you might think about ....

All the major PROs exchange information on placements and payments with each other through reciprocal agreements, although some more frequently than others. Some of my placements have been lost. It happens, but I don't think there's any increase or decrease in that likelihood regardless of the PRO you choose. Effectively, you'll be involved with the PROs in all the countries that broadcast your music, regardless of the one you chose to join.

I get a lot of placements in Europe, and some of the PROs that collect there only send the info to other PROs (including BMI and PRS) once per year, so it can take an extra long time before the info appears anywhere else, including BMI and PRS. When I get UK placements they would show at PRS first, and when I get US placements they'd show at BMI first. Therefore, you might consider where you're most likely to get placements. The trouble is, you won't know that upfront, and after a while you might have placements around the globe. I'm amazed where some of my placements are, and it truly is a global game.

Another thing you might consider is your royalty payment currency and payment methods. BMI don't (at least not yet) make international bank transfers, so they recommend international members set up an online account with BMI's preferred bank in the US, and then use that account to transfer money to their own account. {Edit: I was mistaken about this. Yes, BMI will pay by wire into international banks provided the amount exceeds $250, or $25 in August's distribution}. Instead, I opt for a good old fashioned paper cheque (check). Of course, the payment is in $US and there's fewer UK financial establishments who will cash non-UK issued cheques, and I also lose on the exchange rate conversion. Had I been a PRS member I suppose I'd have lost the exchange rate conversion earlier, but would have been paid more conveniently in £UK directly into my bank.

My conclusion is that it really doesn't matter much which PRO you join as long as you're in one of them. If all my placements were always going to be in the UK I'd be much happier to be a PRS member, but its just not how things are, so I have to accept the 'swings and roundabouts'.

I hear that some members see an advantage in choosing BMI over ASCAP for sync royalties but its not something I know about. Other than that though, I don't think it matters much. Maybe someone else will point out where I've got it all wrong :shock: :D.
Last edited by Telefunkin on Mon May 15, 2023 5:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What do foreign (non US) composers do for PRO?

Post by CTWF » Fri May 05, 2023 9:08 am

Telefunkin wrote:
Fri May 05, 2023 7:13 am
BMI don't (at least not yet) make international bank transfers, so they recommend international members set up an online account with BMI's preferred bank in the US, and then use that account to transfer money to their own account. Instead, I opt for a good old fashioned paper cheque (check). Of course, the payment is in $US and there's fewer UK financial establishments who will cash non-UK issued cheques, and I also lose on the exchange rate conversion.
Graham, I am with BMI, too. Do you know if you can tell them to transfer your funds to someone else's U.S. account?

Who told the story that the fee for cashing the cheque almost ate up the entire payment of $40?
https://soundcloud.com/ctwf --> 0|°_°|0 <-- I am a producer/composer with TV & radio placements around the globe. -- Music is the mathematical transmitter of human emotions.

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