Confused about Edit Points

[TLovato]

Hi guys, I have some serious questions about edit points — I am really confused about how to compose them/how to make them work.

So after doing this for about 6 months now, I’m now learning that I need to put edit points in my music to maximize the chances of it being placed (because it makes the editor’s job easier). But I’m really confused about how to compose them and make them sound good, lol. Every time I try to compose them, the screener says they don’t sound natural.

For example, in one of my pieces which can be heard here:

https://www.taxi.com/members/PNQZVfSXS0 ... ridiculous

My feedback was this:

https://www.taxi.com/members/PNQZVfSXS0 ... NtFigzJZ7Q

So I have a few questions for those of you who have done this before and gotten forwarded/placed:

- Is there a certain number of edit points that HAVE to be present in a piece? Or would the number of edit points depend on the flow of the piece? Like does every song have to have 3 edit points to be useful, or could I even just get away with 1 if it matches the flow of the song?

- How many edit points do you tend to put in your music? And where do you place them in the piece?

- How many beats long should the edit points be? Or would that depend on the flow of the song?

- What would be your best tip to a beginner (like myself) for composing edit points?

Thanks in advance to everyone who replies! I only made 16 songs this past year (my profile says 18, but 2 of those songs are revamps of other songs) and the main reason for my lack of output is just the plain confusion of how TV music works. But who better to ask than the amazing community on the TAXI forums? Woo hoo!

[JimOfferman]

Hey Thomas!

I recently asked a related question, which resulted in a thread that might be helpful to you.

Every time I try to compose them, the screener says they don’t sound natural.

I listened to your piece and have to agree with the screener. I also think it would be fairly easy to improve how your edit points fit within the music if you mentally reframe them as “breakdown” or “needle drop” moments (sorry if those aren’t the proper terms for hiphop).

E.g. have a drum fill lead into your edit point and then follow with either a bar of silence or some effect like a bass note sliding down (downer) or a string glissando going up (riser). This kind of thing is really prevailent in trailer music, if you want some sonic references.

- Is there a certain number of edit points that HAVE to be present in a piece? Or would the number of edit points depend on the flow of the piece? Like does every song have to have 3 edit points to be useful, or could I even just get away with 1 if it matches the flow of the song?

I think you are probably going to need more than one per cue and they should be placed between sections. E.g. intro - edit point - section - edit point - section - edit point - outro. The number of sections may vary, obviously.

- How many edit points do you tend to put in your music? And where do you place them in the piece?

See above.

- How many beats long should the edit points be? Or would that depend on the flow of the song?

Make them (at least) one bar each.

- What would be your best tip to a beginner (like myself) for composing edit points?

Practice, practice, practice.

Also, watch Matt’s video on edit points: https://youtu.be/4iYrd9Ncbug?si=ezfm4ChhgTOxsxRz

Hope this helps!
Jim.

[cosmicdolphin]

- How many edit points do you tend to put in your music? And where do you place them in the piece?

No specifc number, most of often seem to end up with two. One around 30s and one before the final section ( which should generally be the most full on part of the cue ) - Some tracks only have one if it feels natural.

- How many beats long should the edit points be? Or would that depend on the flow of the song?

Yeah it kinda depends. Maybe one if it's more up tempo or two if it's slower - just go with what feels right for each track.

- What would be your best tip to a beginner (like myself) for composing edit points?

I think the ones you have used are fine in those spots but you need to learn to dress them up a little so they are not so stark. So I would often use something like N.I's rise and hit library ..this give you a riser that you can adjust to taste followed by a hit or a boom type sound. Stuff like this smooths over the join and makes it sound slicker. The simplest version of this technique is a reverse cymbal and some sort of sub / 808 boom so try adding those to your track and hear how it helps.

Also go to some of the bigger production music library sites and listen to tracks in same genre you are working on and listen how they do it. This is where somethig like Splice is useful to pick up little sound FX and hits so you can make your own transitions or you can go with a dedicated libarary as mentioned above. I tend to use both and often combine them.

My other tips would be - Go watch Matt's Music Minute Youtube channel, where one of the most succesful Taxi members ever will explain a lot of this stuff to you. It's free, great info and Matt is very watchable. Even I get something out of them and this is now my 10th year at sync.

If you want more in depth help on how to make great sounding tracks then I can also reccommend Sync Academy. There are tutorials there you can work through for many genres including this type of Hip Hop, this will get you to where yo need to be much faster although obviously there is a monthly cost but I feel it's well worth it.

Thanks in advance to everyone who replies! I only made 16 songs this past year (my profile says 18, but 2 of those songs are revamps of other songs) and the main reason for my lack of output is just the plain confusion of how TV music works.

I would reccommend you aim for at least one track per week otherwise you're never going to enough volume to make a dent in this biz. ( that's instrumentals - vocal songs take longer )

All the tools are out there, these forums are a mine of information, as is Taxi TV, 52 Cues, Sync My Music , Matss Music Minute and several other good Youtube channels. There are the books by Dean Krippheane too that you should read if you haven't already, I'd suggest you get them ASAP.

Best of luck

Mark

[telefunkin]

Its good that you've recognised the importance of edit points, and have the desire to improve your chances by finding out how best to incorporate them. As you can tell by the replies, the information is plentiful and easily available, and that's another lesson in itself. This forum is a great place to ask things that you can't ask anywhere else, but its worth keeping a note of all the other places where common questions are likely to be answered so you can get those answers right away.

Just about everything you could ever think of to ask about sync has been discussed on Taxi TV on Youtube....
https://www.youtube.com/@TaxiIndependentAR
...but there's also Matt's videos, plus Paul Croteau (Yo Paulie Music), Dave Kropf (52 Cues), Sync Academy, and several others that offer valuable content and are all great resources to be aware of.
If you're interested in orchestral music then check out Guy Michelmore
https://www.youtube.com/@ThinkSpaceEducation
If production and mastering are your thing then check out Mastering.com
https://mastering.com/

All of the above is absolutely FREE (unless you want to subscribe to their premium content).

[VanderBoegh]

Hey Thomas, the screener's feedback is spot-on for this cue.

The edit points themselves aren't horrible, though they could be sleeker and smoother.

The biggest issue for me on this one is the drums. You've got some dubstep sounding kick & snare happening, and then some 80's Linn Drums fills, all mixed in with some trap'ish hi-hats. So when the screener says "The drums / Hip Hop beat are too Old School. I'd also revamp the Hip Hop beats", I believe this is probably what he/she is referring to. You've got all sorts of genres & eras happening within your drum beat, and the result is like, "huh?"

Sure, the edit points were highlighted as a reason for the return, but there isn't a lot of room in that box for a full description, so the screeners just pick one or two things and list them there. Unfortunately, this can lead to a composer fixating on a problem which probably was minor in comparison to the big screaming issue..... in this case, it's your drums.

Feel free to pop on by my YouTube channel for more advice on edit points, although for my money the ones you've got here are workable - though a bit awkward. I don't have any videos yet on the appropriate sounds for different genres, but it is in my plans to do one at some point.

I hope that helps!

~~Matt

[TLovato]

Hey Thomas, the screener's feedback is spot-on for this cue.

The edit points themselves aren't horrible, though they could be sleeker and smoother.

The biggest issue for me on this one is the drums. You've got some dubstep sounding kick & snare happening, and then some 80's Linn Drums fills, all mixed in with some trap'ish hi-hats. So when the screener says "The drums / Hip Hop beat are too Old School. I'd also revamp the Hip Hop beats", I believe this is probably what he/she is referring to. You've got all sorts of genres & eras happening within your drum beat, and the result is like, "huh?"

Sure, the edit points were highlighted as a reason for the return, but there isn't a lot of room in that box for a full description, so the screeners just pick one or two things and list them there. Unfortunately, this can lead to a composer fixating on a problem which probably was minor in comparison to the big screaming issue..... in this case, it's your drums.

Feel free to pop on by my YouTube channel for more advice on edit points, although for my money the ones you've got here are workable - though a bit awkward. I don't have any videos yet on the appropriate sounds for different genres, but it is in my plans to do one at some point.

I hope that helps!

~~Matt

Thank you so much for the reply Matt! Yeah this was my first time making a hip hop beat so I just picked a bunch of samples I thought sounded "good" lol. I definitely need to dress up the music better, and that includes the edit points!

[TLovato]

Its good that you've recognised the importance of edit points, and have the desire to improve your chances by finding out how best to incorporate them. As you can tell by the replies, the information is plentiful and easily available, and that's another lesson in itself. This forum is a great place to ask things that you can't ask anywhere else, but its worth keeping a note of all the other places where common questions are likely to be answered so you can get those answers right away.

Just about everything you could ever think of to ask about sync has been discussed on Taxi TV on Youtube....
https://www.youtube.com/@TaxiIndependentAR
...but there's also Matt's videos, plus Paul Croteau (Yo Paulie Music), Dave Kropf (52 Cues), Sync Academy, and several others that offer valuable content and are all great resources to be aware of.
If you're interested in orchestral music then check out Guy Michelmore
https://www.youtube.com/@ThinkSpaceEducation
If production and mastering are your thing then check out Mastering.com
https://mastering.com/

All of the above is absolutely FREE (unless you want to subscribe to their premium content).

Thank you telefunkin! I didn't know about all of the online resources that were available, I will keep note of those for sure! I DEFINITELY need to watch more Taxi TV

[TLovato]

No specifc number, most of often seem to end up with two. One around 30s and one before the final section ( which should generally be the most full on part of the cue ) - Some tracks only have one if it feels natural.

I think the ones you have used are fine in those spots but you need to learn to dress them up a little so they are not so stark. So I would often use something like N.I's rise and hit library ..this give you a riser that you can adjust to taste followed by a hit or a boom type sound. Stuff like this smooths over the join and makes it sound slicker. The simplest version of this technique is a reverse cymbal and some sort of sub / 808 boom so try adding those to your track and hear how it helps.

Yeah this def makes a lot more sense. I was so confused because I thought they were legit just supposed to simply be silence in the music, followed by a full-on restart. Which confused me because that rarely ever sounded good in the flow of the music. Thanks for the reply Mark!

[TLovato]

I listened to your piece and have to agree with the screener. I also think it would be fairly easy to improve how your edit points fit within the music if you mentally reframe them as “breakdown” or “needle drop” moments (sorry if those aren’t the proper terms for hiphop).

E.g. have a drum fill lead into your edit point and then follow with either a bar of silence or some effect like a bass note sliding down (downer) or a string glissando going up (riser). This kind of thing is really prevailent in trailer music, if you want some sonic references.

Thank you Jim!! Lol I'm not really a savvy hip hop producer yet so no apologies needed! But this really helps reframe the whole thing in my mind. I really just need to dress them up better. Thanks again!