Question about song ownership and taxi

[altozenith]

A friend of mine and I recently recorded 5 songs which we basically wrote together. I wrote words and music to 3 songs and he put some guitar he wrote the music to the two others and I wrote the vocals and lyrics for those two. I recorded all the vocal work. He also did the lead guitar work for all of the songs and he record and mixed it all on his portable digital work station. You can hear 3 of these tunes at http://www.myspace.com/thebeautifullieband . We sent in the copyrights for these songs as a colaberation equally songright credits. So, because my friend recorded this 5 song demo (mostly in my home studio) he is telling me he is the producer and he holds all producing rights to these songs. However, I helped him arrange and record the material as well as figure out how the mix should sound. Does that sound right to you guys? Is there even production rights on a demo recording? Now my "friend" is a Taxi memeber and I am not so he is telling me he is going to submit the material to Taxi and if I don't pay him up the 200$ I owe him from cds burned and "this and that" he is going to cut me out on all money made by songs. He says all producing and arranging rights will be his. Is this guy just out of wack or does he have any ground to stand on? Is there anybody that I can contact over at taxi, to tell them the songs I have 1/2 song righting credits on maybe submitted as not mine? Thanks for any advise on this unfortunate situation

[stevebarden]

Even though you refer to this person as your *friend*, he clearly is a jerk. This is a lesson learned. ALWAYS have a written agreement, even - ESPECIALLY - between friends.No, I've never heard of a "producing" right. Since you've registered a copyright with the copyright office with equal ownership (50/50) then you have as much right to income from the song as he does. I recommend contacting a music attorney to truly understand your rights.But if you do owe him some money for production costs then you should pay him what you owe him, again, as long as you guys had an up-front agreement, even if it was a handshake.Then move on. He doesn't sound like a guy I'd like to be in business with. He's letting his ego get in his way and that will be his downfall.Good luck.Steve

[sgs4u]

Your buddy certainly has some explaining to do. If you own the studio, it would be extremely tough for him to convince me that he is entitled to anythign more than you are. My opinion doesn't mean squat tho, we're only hearing your side of the story. You guys have to work it out. If he's a Taxi member, I'm sure a couple of phone calls to the Taxi office will get you some advice. You should join Taxi, too. And whatever you guys have recorded together, still has to get by screeners and get placed, and it's a lot frikkin tougher than either of you might imagine. Worrying about what's gonna happen, could be moot, if the recordings are less than broadcast quality. I don't have time now, I'll listen later. Feel free to PM me, if you want more ideas. All of us realize that 5 Songs are important to you. But you have to record 1000. Get to work, and find some new co-writers. I would suggest refusing to work with the guy again, until you guys have a clear agreement why you're working together, and how profits will be divided up.guys named Steve are smartJul 29, 2008, 8:23am, altozenith wrote: A friend of mine and I recently recorded 5 songs which we basically wrote together. I wrote words and music to 3 songs and he put some guitar he wrote the music to the two others and I wrote the vocals and lyrics for those two. I recorded all the vocal work. He also did the lead guitar work for all of the songs and he record and mixed it all on his portable digital work station. You can hear 3 of these tunes at http://www.myspace.com/thebeautifullieband . We sent in the copyrights for these songs as a colaberation equally songright credits. So, because my friend recorded this 5 song demo (mostly in my home studio) he is telling me he is the producer and he holds all producing rights to these songs. However, I helped him arrange and record the material as well as figure out how the mix should sound. Does that sound right to you guys? Is there even production rights on a demo recording? Now my "friend" is a Taxi memeber and I am not so he is telling me he is going to submit the material to Taxi and if I don't pay him up the 200$ I owe him from cds burned and "this and that" he is going to cut me out on all money made by songs. He says all producing and arranging rights will be his. Is this guy just out of wack or does he have any ground to stand on? Is there anybody that I can contact over at taxi, to tell them the songs I have 1/2 song righting credits on maybe submitted as not mine? Thanks for any advise on this unfortunate situation

[davewalton]

Jul 29, 2008, 8:54am, sgs4u wrote:I would suggest refusing to work with the guy again, until you guys have a clear agreement why you're working together, and how profits will be divided up.All I know is that the few co-writers I've had the pleasure of working with, we agreed upfront to the arrangement and that beyond that, we both tripped over ourselves trying to make sure the other person was happy with whatever we were doing. I've had one (1) "hard to work with" co-write and while that person will always be a friend, they won't be a co-writer again because there's WAY too many other easy-going co-writers to work with. Quote:guys named Steve are smartI see a new t-shirt line coming out soon.

[bmete]

Altozenith,It's a real downer when "friends" become idiots, I suggest you go to this link-- http://www.taxi.com/faq/index.htmlI use to co-write with a friend of 30 years, we probably wrote 20 songs together..... he can't get past "ownership" issues- thus he won't sign anything-- ( booze and drugs may have something to do with that too) Damn shame too excellent classical guitarist.. best advice-- move on!! When he drinks he becomes a flaming idiot . Dave is right there are so many talented and gifted co writers- it's a pleasure working with them...Taxi provides a ton of information about everything you are asking here... Also, you should join Taxi.... it's a great ride..Bob

[squids]

hahahah, Steve!!Yes, I agree with Dave. I've had the same experience with cowriters. I'm fortunate in mine, where we were very concerned about the other being happy with the work. Those relationships are ones I cherish and continue to this day. I've had two bad cowrites and while I've given one of them a second chance, the other one I won't, mostly because it's already stressful enough collaborating without having ego problems, control issues (like your guy in a way) or arcane ideas of what working in the music industry is like. It ain't corporate America where you are an employee. If your guy wanted that, he should work-for-hire and then be prepared to have people not want to work with him again if he's difficult. Money isn't enough incentive in this business to keep people together. I think good results, mutual respect (can't stress that enough, I really can't) and a willingness to solve problems together are some of the factors that make for successful collaborations, if you ask me. I'll still be friends with someone with whom I've tried unsuccessfully to collaborate but I don't go back for seconds if it's turned up badly, especially if I'm convinced that nothing I say/do will change their perspectives. I'm especially touchy about the respect thing but that's me, someone else might have some other area they're touchy about.This is also why I recommend to anyone that if you're collaborating with someone, please, do it one song at a time, test drive it, see if it's going to be successful and then, even if it is, consider each new project the beginning of your relationship all over again. A signed piece of paper like a contract doesn't guarantee someone will treat you with the respect you deserve. It will cover you in the event of something like this but, again, I don't think this is anything you need to lose sleep over. I get that you put a ton of energy and time into these five songs but you'll write more with other cowriters. My suggestion is like the rest, call Taxi, read Bob's link, join Taxi to cover potential problems and never work with this dude again. I sho hope I don't know this guy. That's jes my opinion. But squids are really smart too.

[slideboardouts]

Jul 29, 2008, 8:54am, sgs4u wrote:guys named Steve are smart[/quote]I have agreed with many things you've posted on this forum Steve, but none more than this! And yes, Dave, it would make a GREAT t-shirt. altozenith, this guy sounds like the kind of person you need not work with. Co writes should go super smooth and be simple. Otherwise don't waste your time with it.I'd probably just file this under "Lessons Learned" and move on. Oh and I wouldn't give him any money either.If it makes you feel any better, most likely no money will be made on any of those songs. Thats not to say there is anything wrong with the songs (unfortunately I can't listen to them right now), thats just the reality of the music business. Thats why, as Steve said, you need to write 1000 songs. The more you write, the better your odds. Good Luck-Steve

[Casey H]

Jul 29, 2008, 9:39am, squids wrote:...I've had two bad cowrites and while I've given one of them a second chance, the other one I won't, mostly because it's already stressful enough collaborating without having ego problems, control issues... Ya mean some people have control issues, Squids? Whoda thunk it? ... hee hee Casey

[squids]

Hahahahah!! Well, everyone wants their part to go well, that's a fact. It's when they want to control everyone ELSE'S part that it gets to be a problem! I say hire someone and save the headaches if it's that big a deal! Heh.

[mewman]

If your "friend" didn't sign a contract stating he was the producer, I don't think he has much going for his argument. Frankly, it seems to me that you are in fact the writer on at least three of the tunes. Write up a work for hire contract, pay him, and see if he falls for it.I used to think that I was going to write one hot tune and end up on a beach somewhere sipping from a coconut with an umbrella sticking out of it, then, after twenty five years of playing and writing, I woke up and realized that it wasn't going to happen that way. Slow and steady wins the race in the music business. If you can write music and lyrics and sing, you have a lot going for you. Get your own studio set up, join Taxi, and find someone (if you need them) who won't threaten you as soon as they smell a bit of success and crank out a hundred more tunes. Duke Ellington used to say that he wrote ten tunes and threw out nine.Don't forget to remind your friend that he signed a registration form stating that he was a co-writer and that he should be careful not to make a false claim of being the sole writer of any tunes that might get forwarded by Taxi.Mewman