COPY WRITE / Information needed

[Casey H]

Aug 29, 2008, 4:51pm, teashea wrote:Legally, as soon as your finish a song, you own the copyright for the song. The issue is proving that you wrote it. Registering it is one way of proving it - probably the more certain way. However, this proof can also be accomplished by other ways. Posting your songs on the internet is one way, if there is a permanent record of that posting that will be available when you need it. That is the problem. There is no specific limitation of the type of evidence that can be used - as long as it is accepted by the court as admissible. Registering the song at a PRO might also be worth investigating.TomGood discussion...It is true that as soon as you create something you own it's copyright. However, if being able to sue someone for copyright infringement (which isn't all that common) is your concern, in the U.S. there is NO substitute for filing with the U.S. Copyright Office. No other method will mean a thing in a court of law.So, ask yourself WHY are you doing this? That generally leads you to the answer as to what method to use. Casey

[cameron]

I think the fact is that most songs don't warrant copyrighting. There are thousands, actually more like tens of thousands of great songs out there that will never be recorded because their authors don't have the contacts, or the tenacity or whatever else it takes to make it happen. If I had written "Hey Jude" before Paul McCartney, probably nothing would have come of it. Even if you have a copyright, there's nothing to stop someone from stealing your idea. I could take "Under My Thumb" or any other great idea for a song and rewrite new lyrics and music to make it my own. Once a song's a known hit with someone else, that's not likely to happen, but someone could rewrite my song "I'd Rather Be Lucky Than Good" tomorrow and I could do nothing more than go "dammit anyway!", even though I have a copyright on it.Cameron

[mojobone]

Cam makes a good point. I once wrote a tune I called "Heartbeat", way back in 1980something, that eighteen months later turned up in an episode of Miami Vice. The kicker? Not only had I never registered a copyright, but I never even recorded it; yet there it was in all its glory, minus the lyrics and in a different key. Now, if I had recorded and registered the song, there'd have been no point in bringing suit, because no reputable lawyer would have taken the case. Since the work had never been published nor distributed in any form whatsoever, Jan Hammer would have had no means of ever hearing it, and therefore could not infringe on it; there can be no intent to infringe without some mechanism whereby he could have heard it. This is one reason why I don't take credit for the inspiration that drives the music. I believe we're antennae, we writers, channeling the divinity of creation, which is available to all who are prepared to receive it. (I have no problem taking credit-or better yet, cash for the perspiration involved in refining, recording and marketing the results of said inspiration, however)It remains to be seen whether copyright registration is really necessary; any form of publishing, including posting on the web, is likely to create enough of a paper trail to hold up in court, and broadcast WAV files are time and date stamped and IIRC, have the unique identifying code of the computer they were created on embedded in the file. Until there's a test case, there's no knowing if such an electronic paper trail will hold up in court, so for now, it's off to Washington for my tunes.

[Casey H]

Aug 29, 2008, 10:45pm, mojobone wrote:It remains to be seen whether copyright registration is really necessary; any form of publishing, including posting on the web, is likely to create enough of a paper trail to hold up in court, and broadcast WAV files are time and date stamped and IIRC, have the unique identifying code of the computer they were created on embedded in the file. Until there's a test case, there's no knowing if such an electronic paper trail will hold up in court, so for now, it's off to Washington for my tunes.One can easily make the argument that copyright registration may not be worth the money. For example, if you are sure you would never go to an attorney regarding possible infringement than there is probably no point. However, bear in mind that if you think there is an infringement, a lawyer's letter with a copy of the U.S. copyright registration could convince the other party to cease or make a settlement with you. So it's not always a matter of whether you would do an all out law suit... a few hundred dollars for the attorney letter might be worth it. ("might" is the big word)...I don't know anything about recent court decisions where anything other than a U.S. copyright was acceptable proof. I'm not at all up on that stuff-- we would need input from an entertainment attorney. What I do know is the U.S. Copyright is the best possible protection out there.Once again I know many artists who don't copyright their work simply because infringement isn't all that common, especially with respect to the publishers, libraries, and A&R folks we submit to. For me personally, I invest the money for protection. It comes down to what your concern is and what you would do if you thought someone was stealing your work.Casey

[hummingbird]

I have spoken to a lawyer about it, and he said, very distinctly and clearly: "REGISTER THE DAMN SONGS"

[heinsite]

damn right vicky--by all means, register them at the stage that you think the tune/tunes are fundamentally done, as long as it's not a problem understanding that it's your song. now since all of my stuff has words AND music, i'm not that concerned with a resing with some different words, or even slight changes in the music. i'd trust that a "jury" of our peers, or most likely judge--whoever--will be able to say, "yep" they stole your tune. hell, george harrison got clobbered for My Sweet Lord, though i still can't hear that much of a "steal" of the motown hit (don't remember the name, sorry...) he supposedly stole. but he paid his bucks, and done. think he even said he may have subconsciously done so. anyway, and this is JMHO, if you think your tune has legs, and is done for now, send it in, spend the few bucks, and done. hell, you'll make more money more than likely if somebody DOES steal it, and you can prove it! that is if $$ is important to one. it is to me, as i have 40 songs i'd like to demo....all the best,warren

[davekershaw]

Quote:hell, george harrison got clobbered for My Sweet Lord, though i still can't hear that much of a "steal" of the motown hit (don't remember the name, sorry...) he supposedly stole. but he paid his bucks.I always thought he did them a favour!

[claire]

"He's So Fine" - I think it might have been the Shirelles but I could be wrong. All you have to do is listen to the verse melody of both songs to know where George got it from.

[stoney]

For every commercial job I do I with regards to my own music I register immediately with the PRS even if I know the company I am working for will be doing it for me.Got to cover your back every way you can, it's very important.

[teashea]

Registration is the best protection in order to prove a copyright. However, it is not the only way. Other evidence is admissable and there are many cases that validate other evidentiary methods. That being said, registration is the most simple and most certain.Tom