Recording acoustic guitar, an oldie but a goodie!

[treesbygb]

I know this is a debutente issue, but I'm still struggling to consistantly record a nice sounding acoustic guitar, despite having a few forwards with what I've done it still seems hit and miss. I've read countless articles, but am still getting to grips with finding a consistantly good method.Here are the issues:

Doesn't matter how expensive the guitar or how good it sounds while playing, I find each guitar records differently, and a guitar that's sounds good for finger picking can sound bad strummed and vice versa. Having trouble settling on a go to acoustic. Hve tried out lots and my cheap yamaha laminate top knockabout guitar is sounding as good as these I've borrowed to try tried out: Martin DX1, Simon and Patrick Cedar, epiphone 1970's FT135, Eko ranger.

As finances are limited, I'm using a single large diaghpram mic, (which I use for vocals) Rode nt2, before that I used a a cheaper AEG (I think?) Chinese make large diaghpram mic, and I honestly can't tell much difference between the two. I've tried using one mic, and then both of these and have inconclusive results.
Do I need to buy a mic or mics specifically for recording the acoustic guitar? Can I get equally good results from one or two?

Audio interface, used to be a cheap edirol ex something, I've upgraded to the TEC electronic impact twin, and once again, I can't honestly hear much of a difference.

I've tried putting the mic in various positions and find about 6 inches off neck joint is the best so far.

For reference the track, The flower ,on my taxi page uses the cheap yamaha, cheap mic and cheap audio interface and this is the best I have achieved. The song, thinking of you, uses a martin DX1, rode nt2 and twin impact, and I hate the guitar sound.

Any thoughts or suggestions would be very much appreciated.
Thanks
Gary

[Mark Kaufman]

This is a classic: http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/aug01/a ... tr0801.asp

It ought to help, at the very least.

My best advice is to focus more attention on the capture, the mic placement--where and how you mic, at what place in the room--than on the equipment, which should all be good enough to give you excellent results.

[JamieMuffett]

There isn't one single thing you can do, it's a compound effect of the guitar, mic, pre, conversion, mic placement, strings, room, playing style etc... and that is before you have mixed it. I know that sounds like an obvious statement but you really do have to get the most out of each of those for the best possible sound, and if each one of those contributes 10% toward the final sound you are pretty much there (caveat: not all of those have equal importance, but you get my point ha!).

Plus it depends on the sound you are wanting. A sweet shimmery acoustic sound would be achieved with a soft strumming pattern with fresh strings, into a bright pre and maybe in a bright room, obviously that isn't the case for a dark bluesy, gritty sound.

Cheers

[JamieMuffett]

Oh and also as well as moving the mic placement, consider moving the guitar player/mic around the room, that makes a significant contribution to the sound. And don't judge the sound based on what you are hearing through the headphones with the sound bleed from the room into your ears, judge it on playback only, then make adjustments.

[treesbygb]

Thanks Mark and Jamie,
That's a great help and clarification. Guess I was looking for an easy answer, eg. Buy this mic! But I can see that it's achieved by increments. Ok, time to put the engineer's hat on!
Cheers
Gary

[beachbum]

I've struggled with acoustic guitar as well and stumbled upon this method by thinking "hell..it's worth a try".

I bought a Tascam DP-004 (this thing is tiny) for some remote recording I was doing and the occasional sound effect (fun hobby).It has 2 built in condenser mics that are surprisingly good - sells for around $200.00 - one day I propped the recorder up on a pillow and sat on my bed with the guitar facing the mics (6-8 inches away - moving to find the sweet spot) and played the song to the click track - metronome built in to unit - I used the medium mic setting.

I listened back and was surprised that it was much better than my old way (condenser mic or SM 57 w/light compression) - I imported the tracks in mono into my computer,compressed them a bit and then had TWO slightly different well recorded acoustic tracks.This is now my main way of recording acoustic guitar..no fumbling with the boom,mic placement,headphones,wires AND trying to push buttons all at the same time.

I'm pretty sure you can import a drum track into the machine and play along with that (haven't tried it yet)

another option..bum

[treesbygb]

Hey, thanks for that. Can you put a link up so I can hear the guitar recorded in this way.
Cheers
Gary

[rnrmachine]

Hey Gary,

There are a number of ways to successfully record an acoustic guitar. I'll mention 2 of my favorite. If I do mention something someone else already did then take it as unintended confirmation of what they said.

Both styles I would recommend recording with light compression if possible... 3db reduction on peaks. IF not possible then you will most likely have to use a bit more in the mix... depending on the mix of course.

Put a mic at the 12th fret... Within 6 inches. You might even be as close as 2-3 inches for the best sound/tone. (moving to 13th fret, closer to the hole, will give more resonance and moving to 11th fret will give more string for obvious reasons hehe)

Another method is 2 mics, one aimed at the hole and one farther away, at least 2-3 feet, still aimed at the hole. This is more difficult because of possible phase issues. Also there will be a lot more ambiance (roominess sounding a bit boomy) in the track(s) so EQ cuts might be in order.

Granted, different acoustic guitars, different rooms, etc... will have different positions required too capture the guitars "sweet spot" so minor movements of the mic, from these placements I mentioned, for your particular guitar, will be in order.

You mentioned not hearing much of a difference and I am not that surprised that you don't... BUT you should be hearing at least subtle differences. These differences won't seem all that subtle to people who love acoustic guitar... but for most people they will be subtle. Unless of course a side by side comparison is done live... then pretty much anyone would hear a substantial difference. Like I am sure you do... just recording you do not... I presume...

Using bronze strings will make a big difference over steel and or nickel which are a bit more subtle between each other. The way they are wound, what pick you use IF not finger picking. I'd bet any money that bronze strings were used on Boston's - "More Than a Feeling" but I don't know for sure, it's just an educated guess.

EQ on an acoustic guitar...
close mic would be...
Sparkle = 10k
Strings = 5-8k
Pick = 1-3k
Body = 300-500Hz
IF the guitar is a bit muddy cut around 200Hz
You MIGHT even want to boost around 100Hz IF it's a small mix with just vocals and guitar. If a bass guitar is going to be in the mix then don't boost around 100Hz unless you KNOW what you are doing and you are 100% SURE that this is needed for the mix... for some odd reason. OF course this would be mix/genre specific... whether or not ya need a 100Hz boost just for the intro until the bass comes in.. or whatever...

Farther mic...
you'd boost around 10-15KHz and then again 7-9KHz and possibly cut some low end or even a highpass filter so the close mic handles the low end. OR you can reverse it IF you want the acoustic to be a bit more distant in the mix's low end... but this is mix specific.

ALso, Bronze strings, although sound frigging awesome imho... lack a "listener is right there and can hear every string pluck/pick definition" to the guitar. Bronze strings seem to record more "effected" for lack of a better word then steel or nickel, which have a better defined enunciation of what is going on... Less smeared and blurred... although Bronze does tend to add that slight smear/blurr in a really cool way. It's just, imho, IF you are going for an intimate close sound then bronze isn't the best choice. IF going for a Boston - More than a Feeling then bronze is what ya need... imho.

Sorry so much info here... and opinion... just trying to help a best I can.

Good Luck in all you do!!!

[treesbygb]

Wow, thank you so much for your time and amazing advice, already read it three times!
You know I hadn't really given much attention to eq ing, apart from knocking the bass down when it gets too boomy!
Ok, so that's something I'm going to have to look into, trouble is when I see numbers my brain hurts, must apply myself!
Yes, what i was trying to say that I can hear the difference when I play the guitars but the recorded sound isn't the same difference!
I use "silk and steel" strings and finger pick, I'll experiment with some others and a pick when it's an easy piece! (kept losing picks so gave up on them a long time ago!)
I'm gonna stick with one mic, and be really methodical about every aspect.
I'm looking forward to it!
I'm after a warm , yet clear and well defined sound. I'm getting closer with picking, but strumming still sounds muddled....
Thanks again, to all, it's very much appreciated.
Gary

[rnrmachine]

Oh I understand the difference between a strum and finger pick... I've been in that friggin vortex of.. WTF?!! too hehe. A delicate balance between the two is not impossible, it's just harder.

Try the mic at the 12th fret then and go 11th and 13th from there, I think you will like it. It works well for me, strumming and finger picking.