Registering your songs w/ BMI- BMI's take on it..

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Re: Registering your songs w/ BMI- BMI's take on it..

Post by JohnnyP » Thu Jan 06, 2022 7:43 pm

crs7string wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2022 5:43 pm
John,

When a publisher bulk registers with Music Mark, the tracks are registered with BMI, ASCAP and SOCAN.

The registration show up in both the writers and the publishers PRO account fairly quickly.

Also, some publishers do not register tracks and rely on a cue sheet showing up with your PRO. There are certainly some holes and potential downfalls with that strategy.

Having said that, it seems like someone along the way could be dropping the ball on completing the registrations.

Chuck
Thanks for that info Chuck. I may have to delve into that a bit more with you on Tuesday. There are some nuances in this situation I can’t go into on here.. Happy New Year to you.
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Re: Registering your songs w/ BMI- BMI's take on it..

Post by Telefunkin » Fri Jan 07, 2022 4:15 am

crs7string wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2022 5:43 pm
Also, some publishers do not register tracks and rely on a cue sheet showing up with your PRO. There are certainly some holes and potential downfalls with that strategy.
That is an issue I've encountered, and my advice is to make sure that you know whether or not the publisher will register tracks with your PRO on your behalf. Some only do it on placement, and some will still only register with their own PRO. Yes, there are some potential holes.

One of my instrumental tracks keeps getting used on French TV (repeats plus new uses = about 30 broadcasts according to Tunesat), the publisher is in UK and has registered it with PRS, but I'm with BMI and there's no registration there. 2.5 years since its first broadcast there's still nothing at BMI. I know it can take a while for the data to catch up (although I'm not sure why when we all communicate globally in as-good-as real-time). I suspect this one has slipped through the net though and continues to do so. The publisher advised against me registering the track at BMI myself, although I think I would have been better to have done so. The lack of, or conflicting advice from PROs and publishers can be confusing, and seeking specific advice can be very hit and miss. Therefore, I'd say we all need to look after your own interests, especially knowing who will do what on our behalf and when.
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Re: Registering your songs w/ BMI- BMI's take on it..

Post by Casey H » Fri Jan 07, 2022 9:22 am

Interesting thread. Thanks John!

I've been in the habit of NOT registering my songs unless I'm pitching to that library that requires it. Conventional wisdom in the past was if you are going to sign it with an exclusive, it's easier for them to make a new registration that to have to change yours. And since non-exclusives retitle or add a "tag", they will register it that way anyway. The only other time I did it was when there was a real possibility of a direct to sup placement.

But maybe there's more to it.

Best,
Casey

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Re: Registering your songs w/ BMI- BMI's take on it..

Post by JohnnyP » Fri Jan 07, 2022 9:49 am

Telefunkin wrote:
Fri Jan 07, 2022 4:15 am
crs7string wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2022 5:43 pm
Also, some publishers do not register tracks and rely on a cue sheet showing up with your PRO. There are certainly some holes and potential downfalls with that strategy.
That is an issue I've encountered, and my advice is to make sure that you know whether or not the publisher will register tracks with your PRO on your behalf. Some only do it on placement, and some will still only register with their own PRO. Yes, there are some potential holes.

One of my instrumental tracks keeps getting used on French TV (repeats plus new uses = about 30 broadcasts according to Tunesat), the publisher is in UK and has registered it with PRS, but I'm with BMI and there's no registration there. 2.5 years since its first broadcast there's still nothing at BMI. I know it can take a while for the data to catch up (although I'm not sure why when we all communicate globally in as-good-as real-time). I suspect this one has slipped through the net though and continues to do so. The publisher advised against me registering the track at BMI myself, although I think I would have been better to have done so. The lack of, or conflicting advice from PROs and publishers can be confusing, and seeking specific advice can be very hit and miss. Therefore, I'd say we all need to look after your own interests, especially knowing who will do what on our behalf and when.
That's got to be frustrating Graham. I've got some 2019 cues from Germany that showed on Tunesat that were never paid, but not the number you're talking about.. Hope that gets worked out. And your last sentence is spot-on
Last edited by JohnnyP on Fri Jan 07, 2022 10:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Registering your songs w/ BMI- BMI's take on it..

Post by Telefunkin » Fri Jan 07, 2022 10:16 am

JohnnyP wrote:
Fri Jan 07, 2022 9:49 am
Telefunkin wrote:
Fri Jan 07, 2022 4:15 am
crs7string wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2022 5:43 pm
Also, some publishers do not register tracks and rely on a cue sheet showing up with your PRO. There are certainly some holes and potential downfalls with that strategy.
That is an issue I've encountered, and my advice is to make sure that you know whether or not the publisher will register tracks with your PRO on your behalf. Some only do it on placement, and some will still only register with their own PRO. Yes, there are some potential holes.

One of my instrumental tracks keeps getting used on French TV (repeats plus new uses = about 30 broadcasts according to Tunesat), the publisher is in UK and has registered it with PRS, but I'm with BMI and there's no registration there. 2.5 years since its first broadcast there's still nothing at BMI. I know it can take a while for the data to catch up (although I'm not sure why when we all communicate globally in as-good-as real-time). I suspect this one has slipped through the net though and continues to do so. The publisher advised against me registering the track at BMI myself, although I think I would have been better to have done so. The lack of, or conflicting advice from PROs and publishers can be confusing, and seeking specific advice can be very hit and miss. Therefore, I'd say we all need to look after your own interests, especially knowing who will do what on our behalf and when.
That's got to be frustrating Graham. I've got some 2019 cues from Germany that showed on Tunesat that were never paid, but not the number you're talking about.. Hope that gets worked out. And you're last sentence is spot-on
It certainly is John, but I get the impression that its far from unusual. What I'm amazed by is that I've been paid for placements in places like Mexico, Brazil and even Japan much faster than the French one's, but the difference is that those tracks were already registered at BMI (by the library). To me, that illustrates why registration can be important compared with relying on cue sheets. However, I've also got a load of other European placements (including Germany) that are taking their time showing up at BMI even though the tracks are registered. I guess all we can do is accept that delays are not unusual and try and cover ourselves as far as possible then get on with the making more music. Good luck with your German placements eventually filtering through the system.
Last edited by Telefunkin on Fri Jan 07, 2022 11:24 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Registering your songs w/ BMI- BMI's take on it..

Post by JohnnyP » Fri Jan 07, 2022 10:17 am

Casey H wrote:
Fri Jan 07, 2022 9:22 am
Interesting thread. Thanks John!

I've been in the habit of NOT registering my songs unless I'm pitching to that library that requires it. Conventional wisdom in the past was if you are going to sign it with an exclusive, it's easier for them to make a new registration that to have to change yours. And since non-exclusives retitle or add a "tag", they will register it that way anyway. The only other time I did it was when there was a real possibility of a direct to sup placement.

But maybe there's more to it.

Best,
Casey
No prob Casey!

This is one of those subjects that seem to have a dozen different answers and none are totally wrong ;) . And yep me too when pitching direct to Supes.

But honestly the only time I don't register a vocal song is when I'm writing a collection specifically for a publisher with a contract already in place. And it's funny, some of my exclusive publishers also retitle with their identifier in front of the song title.

One additional detail is that on my last BMI statement I received royalties (from Pandora so pennies) on two songs that were signed to the aforementioned exclusive library. That library has put 12 of my songs up on Youtube. But BMI paid me for the pub share too.. which tells me BMI was going off of my original registration where I owned 200%. Sometimes this biz is so freakin' convoluted..
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Re: Registering your songs w/ BMI- BMI's take on it..

Post by funsongs » Fri Jan 07, 2022 10:23 am

Well... if you register your song/track with your PRO when it's done and ready for release...
and then another party is interested in licensing or placing that piece - are they really gonna say (?)
'No - we can't do it now, because you've already told your PRO. Sorry." :? :shock:
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Re: Registering your songs w/ BMI- BMI's take on it..

Post by JohnnyP » Fri Jan 07, 2022 10:39 am

funsongs wrote:
Fri Jan 07, 2022 10:23 am
Well... if you register your song/track with your PRO when it's done and ready for release...
and then another party is interested in licensing or placing that piece - are they really gonna say (?)
'No - we can't do it now, because you've already told your PRO. Sorry." :? :shock:
Yeah good point Peter. I'd say that's correct for a large percentage of the music. Although I know some Music Supes/Shows want to be the one who introduces a song to the world. They don't want it anywhere online unless they put it there. Guess we all have to figure out what's best for us.
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Re: Registering your songs w/ BMI- BMI's take on it..

Post by Casey H » Fri Jan 07, 2022 12:56 pm

JohnnyP wrote:
Fri Jan 07, 2022 10:17 am
Casey H wrote:
Fri Jan 07, 2022 9:22 am
Interesting thread. Thanks John!

I've been in the habit of NOT registering my songs unless I'm pitching to that library that requires it. Conventional wisdom in the past was if you are going to sign it with an exclusive, it's easier for them to make a new registration that to have to change yours. And since non-exclusives retitle or add a "tag", they will register it that way anyway. The only other time I did it was when there was a real possibility of a direct to sup placement.

But maybe there's more to it.

Best,
Casey
No prob Casey!

This is one of those subjects that seem to have a dozen different answers and none are totally wrong ;) . And yep me too when pitching direct to Supes.

But honestly the only time I don't register a vocal song is when I'm writing a collection specifically for a publisher with a contract already in place. And it's funny, some of my exclusive publishers also retitle with their identifier in front of the song title.

One additional detail is that on my last BMI statement I received royalties (from Pandora so pennies) on two songs that were signed to the aforementioned exclusive library. That library has put 12 of my songs up on Youtube. But BMI paid me for the pub share too.. which tells me BMI was going off of my original registration where I owned 200%. Sometimes this biz is so freakin' convoluted..
Early on, like 15 years ago, I used to register all my songs. I remember I signed them later to non-exc libraries who registered them with tags to the titles. But like you, ASCAP picked the wrong one a few times and paid it as my original with my publisher instead of the library's. I don't know what would have happened if I hadn't registered them, my guess is ASCAP would have found the other one. But whenever this happened, I contacted the library to let them know so they could get it fixed as I didn't want them to lose out on what they deserve. Sometimes they fixed it, sometimes not. But I keep my conscience clear, that's all I can do. :D

Maybe I should start registering all as soon as they are created. I would hate to lose 2 or 3 cents of streaming revenue each quarter!! After 10 years, it could add up to a cuppa Starbucks. :P

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Re: Registering your songs w/ BMI- BMI's take on it..

Post by JohnnyP » Sun Jan 09, 2022 6:21 pm

CTWF wrote:
Sun Jan 09, 2022 6:09 pm
The stories I read on people missing payments, especially when overseas placements (in both directions) are involved, are somewhat discouraging.
JP mentions German placements not - or very delayed - being paid in the US.
Vice versa, another forum member has mentioned to me severe hickups relating to placements in the US and (non-)payments in the UK, and Graham (Telefunkin) has mentioned France-UK problems.
It seems to be a mess.

Tom
Yep Tom certainly a mess, and I think one more reason to name our songs/cues something unique and easy to transcribe for whomever is filling out the cue sheet. Maybe no hyphenated words if possible..or?? Who else has other ideas on how to make a title easier to remember and transcribe? Everyone feel free to chime in
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