Rejection Conjecture, Round 2

[michael11]

Quote:Quote:What about Vikki? I'd love to hear Vikki sing on this...but I'm not sure that would help in our efforts to sound as much like the target artist as possible. I just thought it might be nice to get a classically trained singer to give you some pointers.I think Ave Maria has successfully crossed the gender barrier and maybe some in between that we don't know about. Mick.

[andreh]

Quote:Quote:I'd love to hear Vikki sing on this...but I'm not sure that would help in our efforts to sound as much like the target artist as possible. I just thought it might be nice to get a classically trained singer to give you some pointers.I think Ave Maria has successfully crossed the gender barrier and maybe some in between that we don't know about. Mick.I would welcome any guidance from Vikki about my performance, or for a potential singer's, on the track.Andre

[hummingbird]

I've been salivating over this song ever since I heard it last Saturday at the Rally. Like I said then, IMO, there needs to be more contrast between verse & chorus. I really like the vocal harmonies in the bridge & I feel these could come in sooner -- like Matt says, the song takes too long to really take off. IMO a singer wants a chorus that flies a little higher and gives them a chance to show off. THe bridge & final chorus are the best parts of the current version - I think we've all responded to that part of the song. Now that I've had a chance to read the lyrics -- and it could be just my travel-addled brain - but I'm not really 'getting' some of the story here. I'd try re-writing with fewer perfect rhymes and perhaps a little more clarity about how 'your story ends' and yet 'I'll hold you endlessly'There is much to like though, and I feel there's potential. (There is one line in the lyrics - "I know you're not that far, I can still feel you breathe" that seems very similar to a current Josh Groban song - you might want to check that out)If you're interested, for fun, if you have a bed track you could YouSendIt to me, I could fool with the vocals just to give you an idea of how I hear it.cheersHummin'bird

[arkjack]

I was following this thread and figured a post I made pre rally in the technical questions page is more suitable to this discussion... the title of that post is "is it soup yet?" The rejection conhjecture thread follows this same line of the overall TAXI question - when is "it" ready to spend $5 and submit to a listing? The question of is it soup? is the fact that a home studio allows unlimited time to perfect a song.... and unless you draw a line where you stop painting, you keep painting the walls of the building in a circle.... The wonderful thing about the forum is the ability to have access to savy peers to be "tasters" of your mix..... The discussion on "who sings the vocal" is also a recurring conundrum..... I am a singer songwriter performer and I like to go out and sing solo and sing wiht groups..... I like the challenge of doing my own vocals, plus in some respects I am open to pitch as an artist for the TAXI listings.... but as Clint Eastwood says,... a man's got to know his limitations..... Well, I haven't had a chance to listen to Andres' track because I'm blabbering here and have probably provided more questions than answers.... I keep following the thread.... The text of the Is it soup yet post is below.... samples of my stuff are on broadjam Arkjack jack Ezickson....I have 2 songs from my old system recordings out of 48 that I felt I could post to broadjam and submit to taxi listings. The other 46 plus another 92 tunes that I haven't done recordings for seem to languish in an unending state of work in progress. I have built the "new studio" which is now 24 track digital mix audio and 16 midi plus upgrades in the mics, pres, monitors, etc etc..... It was completed around August and I have been working on new recordings and upgrades of the older versions based on the feedback from TAXI reviews and submissions.I have "assistant producer" individuals that I use to put the second set of ears on the tracks and mixes. Three coaches to be precise......My inquiry here is at what point can(should) I make a management decision that a recording is at a level that it can be posted and submitted for taxi listings? Every recording review session with the APs generates valid revision comments, that will necessitate a newer version being worked on. In the meantime, the working copy of the mix ain't all that bad...... and might be a contender on a taxi listing....I am wondering if you guys run into this same cunundrum and how you deal with it...... Since the idea is to create, produce, submit prolifically in order to generate possible forwards, are you all making submissions with not all the way done songs and are you having luck with them on forwards?ArkJack

[davewalton]

Quote:My inquiry here is at what point can(should) I make a management decision that a recording is at a level that it can be posted and submitted for taxi listings?At the 2004 rally, one of the speakers asked a question something to the effect of "How many out there have songs where you know that there's something about the song or the recording that you want to fix or tweak but haven't done so yet?"Generally I try to avoid putting out a track where I know in my heart of hearts that I need to "fix" something. My demo CD at the 2004 rally had several things on it, minor things, that needed to be addressed. This year's demo I really felt that I didn't have any loose ends on the tracks. The actual choice of tracks, well, the effectiveness of the choices I made still remains to be seen. I try to limit my "tweaking" to things that will really matter to someone listening to the track for the first time. Getting rid of a "boomey" bottom end matters. "Finishing" a project and then nudging my EQ at 200hz by -1db and "finishing" it again probably won't matter to the first time listener. Dave

[andreh]

Quote:I've been salivating over this song ever since I heard it last Saturday at the Rally. <snip>If you're interested, for fun, if you have a bed track you could YouSendIt to me, I could fool with the vocals just to give you an idea of how I hear it.cheersHummin'bird Thanks Vikki! I'll send a you a version without the vocals if you'd like to play around with it...very generous of you to volunteer you time.Andre

[andreh]

Quote:Quote:My inquiry here is at what point can(should) I make a management decision that a recording is at a level that it can be posted and submitted for taxi listings?<snip>Generally I try to avoid putting out a track where I know in my heart of hearts that I need to "fix" something.<snip>DaveYou should feel free to post music for us humble Taxi forums dwellers no matter the state of its disrepair; we're a great way to get feedback before you drop your drawers and $5 on an actual listing.As Dave states, though, I wouldn't submit anything to Taxi that's less-than-perfect (IYHO) unless you're only doing it for a critique (which is a good reason to submit as well).When's it perfect? Your perspective on that will change everyday for the rest of your life, so just do your very best and move on. Andre

[hummingbird]

Quote:Thanks Vikki! I'll send a you a version without the vocals if you'd like to play around with it...very generous of you to volunteer you time.AndreHi Andre - I received your file and I'm sorry I didn't check this first, but you wrote this (quite rightly) for a male voice and the key/arrangement doesn't suit me. But while I fooled with it, I fell even more in love with it. The nuances of melody that you've created are really quite beautiful and moving. And I think you do a good job of the vocals, too.Even though your chorus music is quite wonderful, I still am on the fence as to whether it is indeed strong enough. "You Raise Me Up" is similar to what you've done, but I think you could go further. Perhaps listen to a little Sarah Brightman or Barbara Streisand for inspiration there.I think also you might consider submitting a broadcast quality version of this to the upcoming listing looking for Broadway-style tunes. Before you do that though, I would at least add harmonies to the chorus to 'lift' it more, and I would rethink the hook & the lyrics a little.Here's my suggestions for the lyrics:"ENDLESSLY" ©2006 André Hoth Verse 1: I thought I saw you there Was it real? Did I see A shimmer in the air Of a SWEET memory Your beauty remains In my heart you are free But your FOOTSTEPS ARE fading And your story ends Chorus: YOU HELD ME endlessly You showed me who I can be YOUR love was everything to me.... now you've flown away I'LL HOLD YOU ENDLESSLY IN MY DREAMSVerse 2: I wonder where you are In the clouds? In the sea? I know you're not that far I can still feel you breathe When you touch me like rain In the STILL LONELY NIGHTBut your FOOTSTEPS ARE faded And your story ends [Chorus] Bridge: Patiently turning the stars in the sky They open their arms to you So don't keep them waiting Chorus: THEY'LL hold you endlessly THEY'LL show you what you can be THEIR love is everything you need... now you've flown UP HIGH (away) I'LL HOLD YOU ENDLESSLY IN MY DREAMSI'd love to do some background vocals on this if you want more texture.I also emailed you these notes.Hope that helps! Lovely lovely songcheersHummin'bird

[andreh]

Vikki-These are great suggestions; thanks a bunch.I really like the idea of keeping the chorus more defined by replacing the "How do I heal this hole in my heart" line with the "endlessly" lyrics; I was considering something similar but hadn't fleshed it out yet.I'll need to play with he melody to give it even more lift...it seems to "raise up" a good amount already, but that happens in the back half of the chorus and it ends with a down cadence instead of a big hit - there's deifinitely room for more impact.I'm not so fond of the "footsteps" line; I like the meaning behind it, but the word itself is a bit clunky to sing.Again, great alternatives to improve this song. Thanks!Andre

[hummingbird]

Hey, you are very welcome. I played with the song for awhile, and I sure did fall in love with it. I agree with the 'footsteps' phrase not being that strong - but I think it's important not to say that the person's "spirit" is fading, because the whole song is about them (their spirit) 'flying away up there to the stars'. I think if you do the lyrical tweaks and work on the chorus as you've suggested, you'll take an already good song to an exceptional level. Don't be afraid to sing it, either cheersVikki