Release forms (proof of ownership) question....

[tedsingingfox]

Hey, y'all.Curious about something...I'm actually having some good luck so far tracking down old friends and collaborators in order to get those signed release forms to prove ownership of "the masters"... as I have several old tunes that are submission-worthy (and ONE old one that's already been forwarded, before I knew about such forms).Is there a sample of the proper form posted anywhere on any of these threads, or could someone tell me where to find one? As successful as some of my old co-writers have been, I'm a little stunned that every last one of them has come back to me with, "...I don't know anything about such forms..."Thanks, ahead of time.Ted

[tedsingingfox]

And after reading the "copyright" threads on this chapter, I think I ought to tell my specific story in hopes of clarifying what I'm trying to find out.I wrote an original song for my a capella group years ago (back in '97) as part of a possible recording contract we were trying to land. I brought it in one day as a 90% finished tune. Two of the other members in the group tossed out a few suggestions that helped fill in the blanks. Right then and there, I offered each of them 12.5% of the songwriting royalties, should there ever BE any royalties, with my keeping the remaining 75%. That's how it's all broken down on the copyright form I have on file at home.FWIW, we also co-wrote two other tunes brought in by one of those guys, with him taking the 75% and C***s and I splitting the other 25%. The record deal fell through, but one of our groupies loaned us $7000, and we hired Chris Isaaks' producer and went into the studio to record these three tunes on our own. We found a distributor, had a CD release party, and were ready to test the waters.Two weeks before our 3-song EP was to be handed over for national distribution, our bass singer (C***s) flipped out and said that HE WAS GOD and that from now on it was his way or no way. Within the hour, the group no longer existed and he is still sitting on 2,000 dead CD's. I got a grand total of 25 copies of our EP after the dust settled.Fast forward to my current question. The song I wrote (and own the copyrights to) was submitted at the end of August and forwarded back in early October to a publisher with MAJOR TV/film placements.I've just now gone back to check the original TAXI listing, and there is NO mention of my owning the master as a prerequisite; but I'm presuming it could be an issue down the line.What's my best course of action? Get release forms, certainly. But if the former bass singer still thinks he's God, am I better off re-recording the song (and tightening up the lyrics and length, and in effect cutting them out of the original copyright agreement?).I know this is a bit of a ramble, but I'm learning as I go and truly don't want to make the wrong move, here.Thanks.Ted

[Casey H]

Quote:And after reading the "copyright" threads on this chapter, I think I ought to tell my specific story in hopes of clarifying what I'm trying to find out.I wrote an original song for my a capella group years ago (back in '97) as part of a possible recording contract we were trying to land. I brought it in one day as a 90% finished tune. Two of the other members in the group tossed out a few suggestions that helped fill in the blanks. Right then and there, I offered each of them 12.5% of the songwriting royalties, should there ever BE any royalties, with my keeping the remaining 75%. That's how it's all broken down on the copyright form I have on file at home.FWIW, we also co-wrote two other tunes brought in by one of those guys, with him taking the 75% and Chris and I splitting the other 25%. Two weeks before our 3-song EP was to be handed over for national distribution, our bass singer flipped out and said that HE WAS GOD and that from now on it was his way or no way. Within the hour, the group no longer existed and he is still sitting on 2,000 dead CD's. I got a grand total of 25 copies of our EP after the dust settled.Fast forward to my current question. The song I wrote (and own the copyrights to) was submitted at the end of August and forwarded back in early October to a publisher with MAJOR TV/film placements.I've just now gone back to check the original TAXI listing, and there is NO mention of my owning the master as a prerequisite; but I'm presuming it could be an issue down the line.What's my best course of action? Get release forms, certainly. But if the former bass singer still thinks he's God, am I better off re-recording the song (and tightening up the lyrics and length, and in effect cutting them out of the original copyright agreement?).I know this is a bit of a ramble, but I'm learning as I go and truly don't want to make the wrong move, here.Thanks.TedTedThe problem is their names are on the copyright. I'm assuming you have no other signed paperwork with them regarding this naming you as power of attorney. Since they are on the copyright, you theoretically cannot sign documents for the song without their written approval or co-signatures.Can you still contact them? If you can, you should and ask them to sign a collaboration agreement that includes assigning you as POA. However, since this is a little late in the game, you may have to increase their percentages to get them to agree. The fact is you have a deal for the song and it could make THEM money too. So, it's really not in their best interest to hold things up completely. And if I read this right, since you were not legally entitled to enter the deal you did for the song, setting for 33% will be better than nothing (worst case split).Good luck,Casey

[Casey H]

Quote:Hey, y'all.Curious about something...I'm actually having some good luck so far tracking down old friends and collaborators in order to get those signed release forms to prove ownership of "the masters"... as I have several old tunes that are submission-worthy (and ONE old one that's already been forwarded, before I knew about such forms).Is there a sample of the proper form posted anywhere on any of these threads, or could someone tell me where to find one? As successful as some of my old co-writers have been, I'm a little stunned that every last one of them has come back to me with, "...I don't know anything about such forms..."Thanks, ahead of time.TedFor a collaboration agreement template, check out http://www.johnbraheny.com/bus/colcont.htmlThere is long major thread somewhere here regarding master release agreements.Remember: Ownership of the copyright to a song is not the same as ownership of the master recordings.Casey

[tedsingingfox]

Then let me clarify one more thing. No deal has been offered. It was merely forwarded, and I've heard nothing back on it. But I'm trying to inform myself ahead of time, in case I DO hear anything.I've heard back from one of them today, and he said he'd be happy to sign anything I asked him to. It's C***s and his "this is no longer a democracy" statement that has me worried. I left a message for him last night, asking him to get hold of me "about some possible money down the line", and am waiting to hear back from him as we speak.But huge thank you's, Casey, for the inside scoop so far.Ted

[avillaronga]

[EDIT] I guess I'm a really slow typer since they've been a couple of responses in the time it took me to write this one... So some of this may be repetitive.[/EDIT]Hmmm, complicated matter. A lot of listings don't specifically say you need to own the master but if it is for a film/tv placement or any other use where the song will be used as-is, you will need to own all rights including the master for that particular recording. The only cases when you don't need the master rights is for an artist pitch where the song will be re-recorded, but in that case you still need to control the publishing of the song. One clarification about "owning" a copyright, as you mention: the mere fact that you registered the song with the Copyright Office at the LOC does not necessarily make you the owner of all rights, it just makes you the copyright claimant. A song can have multiple claimants, if fact, any author can claim ownership of that copyright (you can list multiple names on the copyright form). If you have co-authors, they will need to either give you, in writing, the power to negotiate the publishing for that song or be a part of the contract with the publisher/music library regardless of who is listed as copyright claimant on the form. Also, under copyright law there is no concept of owning a percentage of the total song, the musical work is one indivisible unit that is owned in whole by all authors. If you wrote percentages on the form I'm wondering how they let that go through. At the very least, such a division has no legal merit for copyright purposes; you should have a separate contract with your co-writers specifying such percentages.Did you register the Sound Recording made for that EP or just the music and lyrics? In either case, what you are looking at here for your situation is:- to sign a contract for the publishing of that song you will need an agreement with your co-authors (regardless of what percentage they agree to get) allowing you to market it on their behalf (a POA, as Casey mentioned) or for your co-authors to be a part of the contract you sign with the publisher/library- to sign a contract for the master recording you need releases from anyone who participated in that recording, including your co-authors and Mr. God. There have been some examples of release forms posted on other copyright-related threads, there are books that come with a CD full of example forms (if you can find one at a public library and just make copies it's a cheap way to get a good form). There are also some sites where you can download an example form for a fee. You need to decide which method of getting that you feel more comfortable with, other than paying for an attorney to do it for you.I hope that clears it up a little. Antonio

[matto]

Guys,I think you should NOT post contracts/agreements in public. I think it would be FAR better if you used PM's.Remember this forum is not just used by Taxi members. Anybody and everybody googling the trem "Work For Hire Agreement" may find this thread, copy your WFH agreement Rachel, and use it themselves.And if for some reason the agreement was ever challenged in some jurisdiction and found to be inappropriate or invalid...these days you half have to expect them to come back here and try to sue Rachel or Taxi...Remember Taxi got sued by some idiot AFTER they got him a deal and the deal resulted in a placement and BMI check, because said idiot wasn't happy with the size of the BMI check. This is the kind of people who may read this thread...in addition to the people it was meant for and all the nice regulars on this forum.So Rachel I would edit your post and remove the agreement. Instead PM it to people you know and trust only.matto

[tedsingingfox]

Quote:Guys,I think you should NOT post contracts/agreements in public. I think it would be FAR better if you used PM's.Remember this forum is not just used by Taxi members. Anybody and everybody googling the trem "Work For Hire Agreement" may find this thread, copy your WFH agreement Rachel, and use it themselves.And if for some reason the agreement was ever challenged in some jurisdiction and found to be inappropriate or invalid...these days you half have to expect them to come back here and try to sue Rachel or Taxi...Remember Taxi got sued by some idiot AFTER they got him a deal and the deal resulted in a placement and BMI check, because said idiot wasn't happy with the size of the BMI check. This is the kind of people who may read this thread...in addition to the people it was meant for and all the nice regulars on this forum.So Rachel I would edit your post and remove the agreement. Instead PM it to people you know and trust only.mattoVery wise advice there, Matt. Thanks.

[Casey H]

Quote:Guys,I think you should NOT post contracts/agreements in public. I think it would be FAR better if you used PM's.What matto is saying is VERY important. This is not the place to post contracts. It opens up TAXI and maybe others to legal risk. Casey

[ciskokidd]

Hi Ted,It sucks that you have to deal with a primadonna like this when you may have a possible deal coming.There may be one unfortunate problem that you brought up. I don't believe you will be able to make changes to a song and cut a writer out of the deal. Jason Blume spoke to this in a music business class I attended a couple rallies ago. Someone in the class asked if they could redo a song with a different lyricist since there was a falling out with his original co-writer. Jason said that once you agree to a co-write split whether in writing or verbally you are contractually bound to that agreement. If this guy can lay claim to co-writing this song he is within his rights to demand his share regardless of how many changes you make and can actually bar you from making those changes.I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I hope you can somehow work things out with this guy. This is a lot easier said than done especially if you don't have the funds or ability to get together quickly, but what is the possibility of writing a new song really similar to what you submitted and got forwarded? What I mean is you could tell the publisher that the song is no longer available, but you have another one ready to go. That way you could start writing the song now and have it ready should the opportunity arise.Best of luck my friend,Cisco