Request for comments

[clonsberry]

So.. I was feeling a little discouraged. Not because I'm losing sight of the dream, but because I just don't know where to go from here. There's so much to digest and I didn't feel like I knew which direction was forward.So.. I was going to post my 100th message and ask for direction but, as I typed it out, I started thinking that I'm doing okay and it's going to take some time. In the meantime, I need to do what I know to do.. get intimate with the styles and what's 'current', pay more attention to sounds, slow down and write better instead of faster.. and clean up the songs that I have, etc. So.. here's one that I offer up for review.Keeping in mind that my main interest is artist pitches, where do I put something like this? (Of course, I'm not afraid of using it for other uses but I think production becomes the problem then). Are there glaring problems that I need to change. I can tell you my first response from Taxi, while polite and professional, was as close to 'this is horrible' as I've seen them say. I had several intros throughout the song.. WAY too much solo. Etc. It's still a pretty long track but I've cut a minute and a half off and the track is significantly better for it. But, now what?Maybe, this isn't one of those engaging songs. I do know that some non-family members have said they love it. But.. I think they do drugs so who knows? If the song has no commercial value, I'll shelve it and move on to something else.Thank you all in advance!Down On The MarinaChris Lonsberry - 2006An old man passed me on the sidewalkHe said get away while you still canHe told me that my life was waitingIn a distant.. a distant foreign landHe pointed ragged fingers southwardHe told me that I had better runAnd then he turned his eyes to heavenAnd went back staring into the sunSomethin' 'bout down on the marinaWatching ships sailing awaySittin' in an oceanside cantinaAt the end of another perfect dayI made my way to my apartmentI found a note stuck to my doorIt said she found someone she neededAnd she wasn't gonna see me any moreSirens screaming in the distanceSeemed the walls were closing inAnd so I bought a one way ticketAnd I won't be.. won't be coming back againI'll be down on the marinaWatching ships sailing awaySittin in an oceanside cantinaAt the end of another perfect dayI've been down here so many years nowLeft that crazy life behindWatchin waves come and go like the days that slip awayIt's a permanent vacation state of mindI'm looking forward to the sunriseWhere the ocean meets the skyI could go back to the things I left so behindBut I just can't seem to find a reason why

[sgs4u]

Chris, the lyric looks like Jimmy Buffet thing, but the sound is like Bare Naked Ladies. Chorus doesn't jump out, yet. I'm stuck for time right now, but I'd love to help you out more. I have felt exactly like you do today. More than once. I expect it'll happen again, too. Lyrics with the ocean, marina, cantina, etc... always sound like they belong in a Buffet treatment to me. Or Otis', Dock of the BayWe can't know what to fix on every style of music we do. Otherwise, it'd already be fixed, no? We have to learn it, one ego breaking lesson after another. Next week I'll have time, if you wanna talk more.

[johnhampt]

We all battle the inner demons Bro. The ones that tell us we're not good enough. Don't have what it takes. Everyone else is better. I just went through a bout of it but in the end I ultimately tell myself that I have what it takes and know I can earn some money at this and do what I enjoy. That's not arrogance. You just need to have confidence that you can do it. And the fact is, not everyone is cut out to do this. IMO everyone has a god given talent whether it be ballet, music, math, writing, etc.... If this is your god given talent then you will make it happen. Only you can answer that...On you song, I again hear Gin Blossoms. I told you that on one of your other songs and I don't think you agreed with me but I hear it, Bro. The Gin Blossoms ain't bad. Made a lot of good songs...I think the first verse is either too long or needs to be changed up just a bit. Seemed a little bit repetitious. When you get to the chorus I had no idea, melodically, that it was the chorus. It was not much different from the verse. Harmonies? Maybe that would help. Something to seperate it and grab the listener.Second verse is just as long as the first. It felt life half way through it needed to go to the chorus. This song was over 5 minutes. You asked specifically if this song has commercial value so my answer is no. Not at over 5 minutes. 4 minutes is considered a long song on the radio. Most are about 3-3:30. I think cutting those verses in half, adding some harmonies to the chorus and changing the chorus melody a bit would vastly improve this song. These are my opinions so take them for what they are worth. The one that I think everyone will agree on is that it is too long. Keep it up Bro!!!

[clonsberry]

Steve, I always welcome your input.John, thanks for your input as well. I went back and started looking at verse 1 and 2. I think I could get away with dropping half of each. It may take a little reworking but there are definitely lines there that don't add much, if anything. The third verse will be harder for me. I don't see as much fat there.If the length is the biggest thing wrong, followed by the lack of umph from the chorus, those are things I can fix. If even after fixing those things, this just isn't going to go anywhere (not current enough, not engaging or any of the other hundred reasons), I'd rather shelve it and move on to the next.I appreciate your encouragement as well. Maybe 'discouraged' was a bad word. Frustrated? It's not that I don't feel I can do it. I just have information overload in most areas, not enough practice/skill in the important ones and the lack of experience to know where to focus next. I think (and I say that with the confidence of someone trying to decide to cut the blue wire or the red) that I should be going back through the songs I have, tuning them up or shelving them (whichever is appropriate) and then finding out where they belong. Once I get thru that, I'll have more to move forward with when I write new material. At least... I think that makes sense. (this is the part I'm struggling with)

[sgs4u]

Chris, do what brings you joy, right this very second. Put away the to do list or pile. Play guitar. Read something. I know what I do, I find someone to connect with on here. That's why I have so many frikkin posts in just a year. Because I get very bored and manic, working on my own songs, all alone.and tell yourself, this feeling is temporary.

[aubreyz]

Chris,Although everyone's process is different, what you are saying sounds very familiar to me. I did the band thing, owned and worked at a few studios, and all but killed myself trying to be a rock and roll star (though looking back, I did more dreamin' and drinkin' than anything that would have really given me a chance at success.) I totally burned out, gave up and quit doing music for about 8 years. I landed a job running a studio again a few years ago, and over time being that close to the fire, the flame started burning again. When I started back doing my own music, the first thing I did was revisit all those songs I thought were great but had never really done anything with. Right around the time I joined Taxi, it became apparent that my productions chops and music were rusty and dated. I worked hard to fix what was there. I wrote new stuff trying to sound current. Had some limited success, but there were many times I felt like I was beating my head against a wall. I couldn't find the missing link.Through collaboration, and experimenting with different styles, it finally hit me. I was trying so hard to be current, that I was losing who I am as a musician. I don't feel dated. I don't feel old. I still have many of the same emotions that fueled the angst of my youth. But I wasn't putting that into my music.Somewhere along the way, I quit trying to be current and decided to just be me. Luckily, that also is sounding more current as I'm getting forwards. I didn't post that to just tell my story. What I hear in this song is somebody trying to write songs. If you are going for an artist pitch, then it's you that you're selling, but I don't get the feeling that this is you yet. For me, the lightning struck with collaboration and though there's much ground to travel, I'm having more fun and am more satisfied with music than ever before.I guess to sum it up-- trust the Force Luke Be who you are. Let us feel it. It my not sound "current" compared to someone else, but maybe you will set the tone for what current is.Aub

[geo]

Hey Chris, I dropped out of the scene for 10 years after about a ten year career of writing and performing, while at the time it was needed (burnt out, discouraged, had to provide better for my family) I wish I had keep up on my writing and playing. Now I find myself falling back on my music when I'm down. If I reread critiques weeks after I got them I find I can address the comments from a more professional POV. The joy of creation and the pursuit of it's perfection is where I find peace. Wow listening to your song and typing got me off on a tangent. Listen I don't know if any of that helps any so I'll turn to your song now.I like the production but it is still too long and the hook could be stronger. My suggestion is to shorten the verses, pick out the lines most important to the story/feel of the song and play around with arranging them. Consider adding "Down on the marina." at the end of a four line verse, repeating the structure for verse 2 and then go to the chorus. This will move your hook up to 0:30 instead of 1:00 when the first chorus comes in.Or just work the line into the verses in different ways to reinforce the hook.As for length I like 3:02 , try to not go over 3:30 and consider 3:45 pushing it. Keep working on this and post changes, goodluck... Geo

[clonsberry]

Quote:Chris, do what brings you joy, right this very second.Put away the to do list or pile. Play guitar. Read something. I know what I do, I find someone to connect with on here. That's why I have so many frikkin posts in just a year. Because I get very bored and manic, working on my own songs, all alone.and tell yourself, this feeling is temporary.You're right. I needed to get away for a bit. I did that very thing. I shut off the computer and curled up with Braheny's book.

[squidlips]

All these guys have great advice.I LIKE this song! It's got a happy groove, reminds me of Buffett (both early years and now, really). There might've been a little sonic dissonance between the guitar and the bass (one of them was a little out of tune, somehow) in the intro but when I concentrated on one or the other, I couldn't hear which one was flat right there. It wouldn't let me rewind, dangit.The chorus didn't have that total contrast that songs these days are supposed to have but I really liked it. It's singable, the melody is easy to remember and talks about the stuff we'd all love to do. Me? I'd change the phrasing of it a little so it's not so "boxy", vary it so it sounds more natural, not so chanting in some spots. And shoot, add some backups on there, that'd be fun (ala Beach Boys, etc.....it's got a certain "beach" feel to it) and would encourage people to sing along . Maybe have them sing a hooky descant after the first chorus?There's a spot in the 1st verse at around 43-44 seconds or so that you could slide right into the chorus. I know, I know. Awful to cut things shorter than you'd planned but you know how they like those choruses right THERE, pretty SOON! (you wait, another 10 years, we'll all being writing a 2-second intro, a chorus and then a button tag and that'll be the whole song, ack! No deviation. Vee must haffa no deviations!)I get discouraged too. Then I remember I could be working somewhere in a cubicle across from a guy who makes weird noises and picks his nose or something. All of a sudden, I feel better. I like this song. It made me smile. --->

[clonsberry]

Quote:I know, I know. Awful to cut things shorter than you'd planned but you know how they like those choruses right THERE, pretty SOON!I like this song. It made me smile. ---> Thanks much, Squid! I'm glad you liked it. If it makes someone smile, then it's worth the space it takes up on paper. I've already started hacking out lines. Like I said in an earlier post, there are lines that don't deliver much info for the space they take. They don't pay their own way. So. a little hacking here.. a little slashing there.. changing some words to find some more concentrated delivery methods... it's what we do. I didn't want to lose half of the last chorus so I'm thinking I might be able to take the last four lines, make them a bridge and put them before the last chorus. If I put a bridge there, I could probably do away with the solo altogether, I wouldn't lose any of the 3rd verse and I think it would still flow contextually.Quote:I get discouraged too. Then I remember I could be working somewhere in a cubicle across from a guy who makes weird noises and picks his nose or something. All of a sudden, I feel better. Wow, isn't it strange when people use your life to illustrate how badly theirs could suck if they weren't where they are? (now you know why being a writer is so important to me)As far as being discouraged, I'm trying to work it out. The more I try and put the pieces into place, the more it tastes like frustration. I'm encouraged at the core. I haven't lost my love of writing. I haven't lost the idea that I can be good at it with time and practice. And learning what makes a great song is still one of my favorite things to do.It's funny. The dozen or so times I've tried to type out where I think the problems stem from, I've gone back looked at how someone here might read it, I've decided it all looks too much like whining. Maybe that should tell me something.So..I'm getting through it. I've drastically thinned out the number of listings I had planned to submit for. I mean.. I don't even bother looking at the country listings anymore. There's no point to me right now? I'm going to lay off the electronica stuff until I can spend some quality time with the music and come back and give Dave a run for his money. Etc. Not that I have any confidence that I'll make the remaining listings but I've already written stuff for them so.. we'll toss it against the wall once again and see if anything sticks.In the meantime, I've got this backlog of 130+ songs that I can go through and clean up. I want to be able to turn them into better songs that are worth keeping or put them on a shelf to use for ideas or parts or whatever. What I don't want to do is spin my wheels on songs that are lame by nature and can never be fixed (and I'm sure I've got plenty). Of course, objectivity can be a problem there so I have to trust people who know.And.. I'm still getting ideas all the time. My notebook is filling itself up quickly. I'm taking those ideas, figuring out which ones are interesting enough to pursue, paying a lot of attention to structures and action verbs and person, tense, etc. But, most importantly for my current frame of mind, I'm not writing with Taxi or listings or what's current in mind. I'm just writing to make better songs.So.. I'm working it out. This too shall pass. (Drinking heavily would probably help. And I could focus on more country songs.) Of course, I'd be a lot sunnier right now if I was going to be in L.A. in November but someone's gotta hold down the fort.