review by same reviewer

[Huff]

Dear friendly reviewers. Is there a way to know who will be reviewing a listing? The reason I ask is that I am interested in getting several opinions on certain songs. Obviously everyone has ideas/tastes that are a little different. My perception is that each reviewer acts as a gatekeeper and filters the submissions down to what the reviewer believes are worthy of a forward. I also thought I understood that I am likely to get different reviewers for different submissions/listings. I have only been doing this for a couple of months but I have submitted a couple of rock-ish country songs to a couple of different listings. I received a very thoughtful review for each of the songs from the reviewer in the first listing, which I appreciate. In the meantime I submitted the same songs to a couple of other different country listings and have gotten another rejection and review. However, it is from the same reviewer. Again he/she was kind enough to repeat roughly the same critique. However, obviously I already knew his/her opinion and was hoping for a different viewpoint. For the reviewer's part, I'm sure he/she felt silly having to say the same thing to me over again. If I had known this reviewer was the gatekeeper for the listing, I would not have wasted my money or his/her time since I already knew his/her opinion (again a thoughtful opinion which I appreciate). So my questions are: Is it correct to expect that different reviewers may have different opinions? Do you guys listen and develop a group opinion so that the review I get is more of a collective company opinion (so that every reviewer might say the same thing). OR does each reviewer act autonomously so that one could like it while another one hates it. Is it just per chance that I got the same reviewer or is that pretty common? Is there a way to know who the reviewer for the listing will be (by reviewer #)? Is it silly to submit a song again after a return (because the initial review establishes the company line) or can I expect to get multiple perspectives on my songs if I submit them to 3 or 4 listings. And yes I understand that after the 3rd different reviewer says the same thing I should go back to he drawing board. Appreciate hearing from you. Best, Huff

[mikemichnya]

I'm not a reviewer, so these responses are just my best guess.

Is there a way to know who will be reviewing a listing?

From what I've seen, no, and for good reason: it would be hard to be objective if you had to worry about irate songwriters sending you hate mail.

Is it correct to expect that different reviewers may have different opinions?

Yes, to a certain degree. Music, like any other form of art, is subjective and there's no accounting for taste. I would expect industry pro's to agree on many of the same points, but that's not always the case.

Do you guys listen and develop a group opinion so that the review I get is more of a collective company opinion (so that every reviewer might say the same thing). OR does each reviewer act autonomously so that one could like it while another one hates it.

That's a great question for an administrator. You should tune in to Taxi TV and ask Michael, or give the company a call. My guess is that each reviewer acts autonomously, but I would imagine there's a second level. When I sang in Barbershop competitions, there were two judges for each category (sound, arrangement, stage presence, etc.). Each judge scored independently of the other, but the two scores had to be within a certain number of points of each other, or the scoring was reviewed. After the competition, the judges would explain their ratings to the contestants, much like the critique we get from Taxi. Similarly, NSAI evaluates songs and once a month the various reviewers play the songs they love at a 'reviewer's luncheon'. Only the ones they ALL agree on get pitched to publishers.

Is it just per chance that I got the same reviewer or is that pretty common?

Probably just chance. There might only be a couple of reviewers for a particular genre. I don't know how many Taxi has on staff. That's another good question for admin.

Is it silly to submit a song again after a return (because the initial review establishes the company line) or can I expect to get multiple perspectives on my songs if I submit them to 3 or 4 listings.

That depends on why the song was returned. I've had the same song forwarded and returned in the same genre. It was right for some listings, but not for others. Re-submitting would only be a waste of money if there were major flaws that previous reviews noted that you failed to correct.


These songs are our babies. We want everyone to love them as much as we do, and when they're returned, it hurts. I used to have a job doing telephone sales. Most people hang up on you, and after a couple of hours it can be hard to take. The most successful were those who could make every call with the same enthusiasm and optimism as the first call. They didn't take the rejection personally. They just went on to the next call with the same smile in their voice that they had when they started.

Take the song "The House That Built Me". That song kicked around for seven years before it got cut. The songwriters and their publishers believed in the song and kept pitching it. Then Miranda Lambert accidentally heard it in Blake Shelton's cd player and it won a couple of Grammy's, a Teen Choice award, and a Billboard award.

There's a saying: "Write, Submit, Forget, Repeat". (It's catchy, but it's also misleading. IMHO, the expression should be, "Write, Submit, Re-Write, Re-submit, Repeat", but it's not as catchy.) "Forget" is a metaphor for "don't let past failure prevent future success." In sports, the most successful athletes have both talent AND supreme confidence in that talent. Mantle might strike out, but he knows he's going to win the game with a homer his next at-bat. In other words, don't worry about it when you fail. Just keep swimming.

You're already aware that you have to learn from and correct your mistakes to keep from repeating them = that's why you were hoping for a different reviewer. I suggest that you post on the peer-to-peer (P2P) section of the forum BEFORE you submit. Take it to your local songwriting group. Pay for a custom critique. (There are pro writers who will also give you their professional opinion for a fee.) Get all the feedback you can. Consider what the various reviewers are telling you. Re-write accordingly, and try, try, try again.

Good luck!

[hummingbird]

good post!!

[Casey H]

Probably the best thing to do is to send a song in for a custom critique and in the comments say that you would like someone other than Screener XXX. They will definitely accommodate you.

For normal listings/submissions it depends on the genre and who is available at the time. You'd have to ask Taxi but in those situations its probably harder to request a different screener. With a custom, they have a lot more leeway, especially since there is no time deadline.

Good luck!
Casey

[andygabrys]

In addition to Mike's great response above:

Is it correct to expect that different reviewers may have different opinions?

I think it depends more on how close your pitch was to the target, how well you wrote to the brief.

If you nailed it: most screeners would give you a forward

If you are in the middle ground between nailing it and totally missing: that's where screener opinion is going to figure more heavily in forward return

If you really missed: most screeners are going to return it.

Do you guys listen and develop a group opinion so that the review I get is more of a collective company opinion (so that every reviewer might say the same thing).

I believe Michael remarked on this recently that each set of screenings does have a check and balance system - i'll try to find the info regarding that.

OR does each reviewer act autonomously so that one could like it while another one hates it.

It would be worthwhile to check various episodes of TAXI TV where Michael has "screened" tracks for various listings. I think you will find that in most cases the criteria for forwards / returns is a little more objective rather than a like / dislike. After a while you develop a pretty good personal feeling for what kind of tracks should have been forwarded, and which ones would merit a return. It helps to develop a less partial screening of your own work.

Is it just per chance that I got the same reviewer or is that pretty common?

As remarked above, TAXI screeners are often employed because of their relative expertise in a certain genre - so if that is one genre your always write in, chances are good you will get the same screener.

Code: Select all

Is there a way to know who the reviewer for the listing will be (by reviewer #)? 

AFAIK no.

Is it silly to submit a song again after a return (because the initial review establishes the company line)

I don't believe its the "company line" - but rather the song is examined in light of the listing. If its close enough, it will get forwarded. It is all listing specific. So....

can I expect to get multiple perspectives on my songs if I submit them to 3 or 4 listings.

absolutely - you will get multiple perspectives because each song is reviewed using the criteria of the listing. Even if its the same reviewer.

FWIW - if you have submitted the same song to two different listings, and got returns on each, then its time to examine how you are submitting as well as look at how your production is crafted. It could be that the material is really top notch, but you are not matching up your great material with appropriate listings. Even the best song on the wrong pitch isn't going to get forwarded.

OTOH - there are many productions which need work. It took me a little time to start hearing what was "broadcast quality". Again there is a Ustream TAXI tv episode on what is "broadcast quality" - do some googling.

BTW - Casey also advocated the custom critique. That is always available. As is posting your WIP and the entire listing text on the Peer to Peer section of this forum. You may get some great detailed responses.

The more you put your stuff out there on this forum and get involved with other forum members (going to the RALLY is an asset there too) the more you will develop a network of people that you can rely on for opinion as well finding people that you can collaborate with to make your submissions stronger.

HTH (hope that helps)

[admin]

Dear friendly reviewers.

Is there a way to know who will be reviewing a listing?

No, we choose them based on their genre(s) of expertise and availability to work on a particular listing.

The reason I ask is that I am interested in getting several opinions on certain songs. Obviously everyone has ideas/tastes that are a little different. My perception is that each reviewer acts as a gatekeeper and filters the submissions down to what the reviewer believes are worthy of a forward.

While people often call them “gatekeepers,” they are actually more like “Gate-openers.” They’re hoping to find the right material. Yes, they do forward what they think is on target and of high enough quality that the listing party would want to and should hear it.

I also thought I understood that I am likely to get different reviewers for different submissions/listings.

We don’t make that promise for several reasons:
1) We assign screeners based on the genre and their availability. For genres that we get a lot of submissions, it’s not uncommon for us to assign several screeners to a project.

2) If a listing was brought in by a screener who knows the listing party, and the listing party asked to have that screener listen to all the submission because he/she knows them and what would appeal to them, we try to have that screener listen to all submissions. Sometimes, a single screener can’t handle the number of submissions in the time required, so we get permission to add another screener who is qualified in that genre.

3) If the genre is something that we don’t get requests for very often, and we don’t get very many submissions, we may have one screener who really stands out in that genre, and therefore gets most or all of the submissions. Examples might be experimental Jazz or Opera.

4) Sometimes we get listings from Music Supervisors who screen for TAXI when they are between projects. Sometimes they also screen music for their own listings/projects (if their timeline allows), so you’re getting heard by the end user! If that Supervisor is running three listings for: Alt Rock, Indie Rock, and Pop Rock (for instance), and you submit to all three, you would get heard for each by the same screener. If you submit the same song for all three, you could potentially get forwarded for one of them, but not the others. It might be a better fit for one than the others, and there’s no point in the Supervisor forwarding the same thing for all of them. BTW, it’s very easy to see that all three listings are for the same project by the way the listings are worded.

I have only been doing this for a couple of months but I have submitted a couple of rock-ish country songs to a couple of different listings. I received a very thoughtful review for each of the songs from the reviewer in the first listing, which I appreciate. In the meantime I submitted the same songs to a couple of other different country listings and have gotten another rejection and review. However, it is from the same reviewer.

For the reasons listed above, it’s possible to get the same person hearing your song or track for different listings. And while he or she might think it’s perfect for one, it might not be on target for another. Even though both listings might be for the same genre, the specifics the listings ask for could be quite different.

Again he/she was kind enough to repeat roughly the same critique. However, obviously I already knew his/her opinion and was hoping for a different viewpoint. For the reviewer's part, I'm sure he/she felt silly having to say the same thing to me over again. If I had known this reviewer was the gatekeeper for the listing, I would not have wasted my money or his/her time since I already knew his/her opinion (again a thoughtful opinion which I appreciate).

So my questions are:

Is it correct to expect that different reviewers may have different opinions?

The screeners’ goal is to find what is on target and meets the quality bar, so their opinions are focused on those criteria, and not on whether they simply like a song or not. Personal taste shouldn’t be a factor, although one screener may focus on one aspect (feedback wise), while another may point out something different. If you get the same screener giving feedback on the same piece of music for the same listing, they will usually try to give you feedback on different aspects (so you get more value), although the decision to forward it or not could very well be the same.

Do you guys listen and develop a group opinion so that the review I get is more of a collective company opinion (so that every reviewer might say the same thing).

No, it would be extremely time and cost ineffective to have a panel of people all commenting on one song or instrumental. We briefly experimented with that back in the ‘90s, and the decisions about forwarding or not from the panel were virtually identical to what individual screeners decided!

OR does each reviewer act autonomously so that one could like it while another one hates it. Is it just per chance that I got the same reviewer or is that pretty common?

They act autonomously, and none of the screeners have any idea what the others are doing. In other words, each screener’s decisions are very much their own and not influenced by past or collaborative feedback from other team members.

Is there a way to know who the reviewer for the listing will be (by reviewer #)?

No, we don’t typically know who will be working on a listing until we see how many submissions have come in.

Is it silly to submit a song again after a return (because the initial review establishes the company line) or can I expect to get multiple perspectives on my songs if I submit them to 3 or 4 listings.

No such thing as a “company line.” Even if we were inclined to “spread the word,” can you imagine how much time, effort and coordination that would take our part? And what would it accomplish? Get as many perspectives as you can. It’s kind of like crowdsourcing, but from real experts!

And yes I understand that after the 3rd different reviewer says the same thing I should go back to he drawing board.

Correctomundo! Hearing similar feedback from multiple sources that are all operating independently is a pretty good indicator that they might be giving you valuable info!

Appreciate hearing from you. Best, Huff

We hope this helps you and other members!

[Huff]

Many, many thanks to those members who shared their thoughts on my questions, and thank you very much, Taxi, for taking the time to answer everything so thoughtfully and thoroughly. Back to work. -Huff